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Thread: Winchester (Miroku) 1885 38-55 Load?

  1. #21
    Boolit Mold wsjones's Avatar
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    Got the rifle and loaded some ammo but no shot fired yet. Snow yesterday, which made using the chronograph pointless, and today it's 21 degrees and wind's blowing 25+ with on and off snow showers. About all I can expect to do is make it go bang, which I'll do but I won't kow much else.

    I loaded 20 rounds using the Midway Cast Performance 260gr .378 gas check's in the long Starline brass with Fed. 210 primers. Powders were 9.0 & 10.0 gr. Unique and 23.0 & 25.0 gr. IMR 4198. COL is 2.520.

  2. #22
    Boolit Mold wsjones's Avatar
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    Finally got some tolerable weather (sunny, 18, and light wind) and nothing more pressing to do and shot up my first box of 38-55's.

    Velocities were a bit less than expected with Unique - 1066 fps with 9.0 gr and 1145 with 10.0. I shot off hand at 25 yards and had no difficulty breakiing clay targets but I didn't try to do any more for accuracy. Velocities with 23.0 and 25.0 gr. of IMR 4198 were 1344 fps and 1628 fps, respectively. Recoil with the Unique loads was nil and insignificant with the 4198 loads. And unfortunately, after using the tang sight on good targets, at short range and in good light, I'm afraid a scope is definitely in order if I'm to hunt with it. -WSJ

  3. #23
    Boolit Buddy
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    I have had really good results with the beartooth over AA2495. It is the heavier of the two bear tooth bullets. i shoot a crazy horse winchester with a .378 bore. will rock clay pigeons at 100 yards till i get tired of it. don't have the charge weight in front of me.

  4. #24
    Boolit Mold
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    38-55

    I too have purchased an 1885 winchester (Miroku) having problem finding the right dies. The dies I check on have an expander to small for cast boolits.
    any ideas? I want to shoot .377 boolits. what I have been reading most dies are made for .375 and are causing problems buldging the case mouth when trying to insert a cast boolit.
    Last edited by bull5760; 01-23-2011 at 10:05 AM.

  5. #25
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by bull5760 View Post
    I too have purchased an 1885 winchester (Miroku) having problem finding the right dies. The dies I check on have an expander to small for cast boolits.
    any ideas? I want to shoot .377 boolits. what I have been reading most dies are made for .375 and are causing problems buldging the case mouth when trying to insert a cast boolit.
    You could try a Lyman "M" die that has a 2-step expanding button.

  6. #26
    Boolit Master
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    I use RCBS "cowboy" dies for my Jap Winny 38-55. The sizer comes with two expander plugs. I use the larger (forget what size). No problem seating boolits sized to .379.
    ph4570

  7. #27
    Boolit Bub
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    Quote Originally Posted by ph4570 View Post
    I use RCBS "cowboy" dies for my Jap Winny 38-55. The sizer comes with two expander plugs. I use the larger (forget what size). No problem seating boolits sized to .379.
    ^this^

  8. #28
    Boolit Buddy Old Coot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bull5760 View Post
    I too have purchased an 1885 winchester (Miroku) having problem finding the right dies. The dies I check on have an expander to small for cast boolits.
    any ideas? I want to shoot .377 boolits. what I have been reading most dies are made for .375 and are causing problems buldging the case mouth when trying to insert a cast boolit.

    Why bother resizing the case if you are only going to shoot low pressure cast loads?
    I just reprime the cases and load them for my Stevens 44 38-55 and it works great with .380 cast bullets.

  9. #29
    Boolit Bub
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    I shoot the 405 win and 375 win. To work the case just enougth to hold the CB, use a RCBS trim die backed off about 0.200" to 0.250" off the shellholder. This puts a nice soft grip on CB and with a small bump (from expander die) to flare case gives good brass life. I use a Lee FCD to close the bell and put a small crimp onto CB. This method is used for my single shot Ruger #1 / #3 and Win 1885.

  10. #30
    Boolit Master
    Mr Peabody's Avatar
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    I don't size my cases. After firing they are .378 inside which gives plenty of grip for a .381 boolit. See what the fired cases from your rifle measure inside.

  11. #31
    Boolit Master
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    You can buy the expanders in several sizes from Track of the Wolf.
    The custom expanders are cheap but they only fit the Lee Expander die.
    I would buy both sizes and polish the .377 down if it expands the cases too much.
    I have listed the inside dimensions of both .375 Win and 38-55 dies several times.

    . . RCBS . Die . Sizer . Sizer Inside . Seater Bullet . Comments
    Die Set . Date Code . Brand . Type . Diameter . Guide Diameter .
    . . . . . . . . . . . .
    .375 Win JS . 78 . RCBS . FL . .3890 . .378 . .3735 expander
    .375 Win EG . 79 . RCBS . FL . .3900 . .380 . .3734 expander
    .38-55 Win . UNK . RCBS CBY . FL . .3870 . .381 . .3742 and .3773 expanders.
    .38-55 Win/Ballard . 84 . RCBS . FL . .3850 . .380 . Expander = .3735
    .38-55 . UNK . LEE . FL . .383/.385 . .376 . Short .373 expander that tapers to .385. (Lee mixes these dies 375 seater die, .375 expander die and a .38-55 sizer die)
    .38-55 G 56 RCBS TRIM .3940 NA Not a die set

    Note the inside diameter of the RCBS Cowboy seater and the out side diameter of the expanders.



    http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Search...earch=expander


    Quote Originally Posted by bull5760 View Post
    I too have purchased an 1885 winchester (Miroku) having problem finding the right dies. The dies I check on have an expander to small for cast boolits.
    any ideas? I want to shoot .377 boolits. what I have been reading most dies are made for .375 and are causing problems buldging the case mouth when trying to insert a cast boolit.
    EDG

  12. #32
    Boolit Master
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    From a safety viewpoint there should not be any difficulty reaching 1800-plus fps with your desired bullet weights. The Miroku is a very strong action capable of handling Ruger #1 loads. I have shot maximum Ruger #1 45-70 loads from mine without the slightest hint of functioning problems and those loads place much more stress on the action than the smaller diameter .38-55 case. Any problems would be related to using cast bullets at those velocities. Recoil and stock/pad considerations are individual.

  13. #33
    Boolit Mold
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    Apr 2022
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    Have you looked at or inquired about the RCBS Cowboy sets~?

  14. #34
    Boolit Mold
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody View Post
    I don't size my cases. After firing they are .378 inside which gives plenty of grip for a .381 boolit. See what the fired cases from your rifle measure inside.
    I do the same, for my Ruger #1 38-55. I size and deburr new brass, and it doesn't get resized again.

  15. #35
    Boolit Man
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    Dec 2007
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    Toledo, Ohio
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    I have the Miroku and the RCBS cowboy dies. I have been chasing accuracy on mine. Mine slugs close to .377. Using the .379 expander which is actually a bit under .378 didn’t give much grip on a bullet sized .378-.379, so I have been using the .376. It however doesn’t have the second step like an M die, so caution must be used to not over flare the case.

    To not work the brass too much, I have the FL sizer die screwed way out so as to basically just size the bullet seating area. In fact, I don’t even need to use any sizing lube on the cases as they are only sized down a few thousandths at the nose. Because of this, I use a Lee universal decapper to knock out the primers.

  16. #36
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by wsjones View Post
    Thanks, no, not with a curved butt plate! I'm thinking that would NOT be a happy thing.

    I was looking for advice and suggestions, and thoughts on my intended load components and goals for a hunting & plinking load, all of which I got.

    And based on replies from other owners of Miroku Wnchesters of recent manufacture it seems that my initial component selection is reasonable. I will slug the bore to confirm groove diameter, but it seems likely that the chamber is indeed the longer dimension, which makes using the 2.125 brass sensible and do-able.

    I'll take the actual load advice as reasonable initial maximums and work up to them with my components until I get good groups at or near my desired velocities, which may well now be several hundred fps slower based on experiences you fellows have shared.

    On the other hand, it doesn't seem like 1700-1800 fps is an unreasonable velocity goal for THIS rifle and component combination if it groups well and doesn't beat me up.

    Thanks again for the info and insight. -WSJ
    I think your velocity target is on the hot side - I had a 375 BB years ago - commercial load for the 250 grain was 1900fps - these guns were setup to take 52,000CUP compared to the normal '94 at 38,000CUP ---1600FPS would seem to be more realistic for a 250 grain boolit - you proly can do that with a plain base boolit

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check