The .32 S&W Long as a man-stopper

[Molly]

Hey Molly,
Did you see this one?

Yeah, I picked it up earlier, but thanks. I really appreciate the thought.

I now have 1433 entries in my .32 (Short, Long, H&R & 327) reloading data base, so it's not too often I pick up one that is new. (BG)

[Molly]

Well, this was to be the day of the milk jug tests. The snow's all gone, and it's warm enough for shirtsleeves - if they're warm and thick. (BG)

But as Burns said, 'The best laid plans of mice and men gang oft agley!" It's also warm enough to defrost the ground, which was showing some signs of becoming permafrost there for a while. Now it more resembles permamud. Dale 53 called to tell me that if we drive down to the range right now, he has serious doubts about getting a vehicle back out. So . . . . mice and men will have to wait until the ground dries out a bit. But it's only delayed, not cancelled. Stay tuned to this station for more late-breaking news developments.

[Swede44mag]

I didn't take time to read all of the posts but I have considered buying a S&W .327mag so I could shoot the Longs .32 mags & .327 mags I think it would be an excellent carry conceal.

Isn't a .32 what Charles Bronson used in Death Wish?

[dualsport]

I'm ready to load up some JHPs in the .32 S&W Long, to be fired in a Ruger SSM. They're going to be shot at jugs of water for penetration test and comparison to lead loads. To be consistent with this thread the loads need to be safe in non-magnum handguns. The bullets I have are the Hornady 85 gr JHP and the Sierra 90 gr. JHP.

[lebrew]

I cast my LEE SWC tl 314 out of pure lead, they will expand some and deform when they make impact with bone and tissue, they will cross the ribcage of a deer and lodge in the opposite side, or penetrate depending on the angle of impact with the ribs. I am working on more effective lead BOOLITS for my mouse guns. LEAD FLAT points are the way to go. Dont make them too hard. I will be done and publish my work in another month or so. The pictures and video clips dont lie.
LEBREW

[dualsport]

LB. sounds interesting, looking forward to a report. That little Lee TL is a versatile little thing.

[Molly]

I'm ready to load up some JHPs in the .32 S&W Long, to be fired in a Ruger SSM. They're going to be shot at jugs of water for penetration test and comparison to lead loads. To be consistent with this thread the loads need to be safe in non-magnum handguns. The bullets I have are the Hornady 85 gr JHP and the Sierra 90 gr. JHP.

Dualsport, I owe you an apology: Your heading asking for 32 load suggestions just caught my eye. I'm sorry I didn't respond earlier.

Unfortunately, the litigatious nature of our society prevents me from giving you a really satisfactory reply: If your gun comes apart under a load that my gun handles perfectly, the consequences could be bad from several perspectives.

However, I will give you the following information for your consideration and guidance only, and emphaticly NOT as a recommendation. I have found that eight grains of H-110 over a CCI SP primer and under a 115g hard cast SWC bullet, heavily crimped in a 32 S&W Long case will provide energy and velocities considerably enhanced over a factory 32 Long round, and the cases will still extract easily from the chambers of my Ruger SP101 (in 32 H&R Mag) used to fire it. I have gotten similar results from slightly higher powder charges, but am uncomfortable with the degree of primer flattening. I consider the above load a useful and practical maximum for use in the Ruger 32 H&R Magnum.

Note that I would consider it unwise and very reckless to try to simply assemble such ammunition to be fired in a revolver chambered for the smaller .32 S&W Long round. I will drop down to 6.5 grains of H-110 and work up to find the maximum for use in a high quality modern revolver chambered for the .32 S&W Long. I expect to find that the maximum load for use in MY 32 S&W Long revolvers is between 7.0 and 7.5 grains, but I also expect pressures to still be well in excess of SAAMI standards.

Handguns are highly individualistic in their response to handloads, especially high pressure loads. These loads FAR exceed SAAMI recomended pressures for the .32 S&W Long, and are likely to damage or destroy older handguns, possibly resulting in personal injury to people present when they are fired. Considering the variability inherent in different batches of powder & primers, the improbability of having exactly the same case hardeness and volume and the essentially impossible duplication of my crimp and bullet alloy hardness, you would be very wise to drop my charges by at least 15% and working up from there, watching carefully for signs of excessive pressure.

I hope you find this interesting and useful.

[dualsport]

Thanks molly. It is interesting but I don't have any H-110 in the stash. I'm going to go with Lyman and Hornady book loads recommended for solid frame revolvers. My thinking is it's likely someone who chose to use these light weight JHPs might do the same. It's only for a comparison to your test results with the heavy cbs. Top velocities with this combo only reach 900 fps using AA#2, but I may try Bullseye and Red Dot. All the 'book' loads I've found use fast powders. Just for fun I'll fire a few of these loads in a Russian MN 91/30 using a chamber adapter. With that set up I've gotten very good accuracy at 25 yds using the Lee TL 314 and Bullseye. I'm gonna need a lot more milk jugs.

[MakeMineA10mm]

Hey Molly, I was delayed in getting that article out to you, but it got in the mail earlier this week. Did you receive it yet?

I also picked up that almost-full box of 32 Longs. They sure look like scaled-down 38 Spls to my eye.

A gal at work has two early 1900s revolvers her grandfather carried on duty as a Chicago cop, and I'm betting those 32 factory loads will get turned into brass when she brings them in. (But as of now, I have no idea what caliber they, I'm just speculating.)

[Molly]

Hey Molly, I was delayed in getting that article out to you, but it got in the mail earlier this week. Did you receive it yet?

Yes thanks. It looks great, but I haven't read it yet. (Daughter in law is having some health problems, and will need some TLC for a few weeks while she recovers)

Check your PMs for a note from me.

[dualsport]

I've got the neighbors saving milk jugs for me, so I'll have a bunch soon. What's a SWAG for the number of jugs needed in a row to stop a Hornady 85 gr. XTP/HP going about 900 fps?

[Love Life]

"So the question I would like to put up for discussion is this: Do you think that the .32 S&W Long – suitably handloaded – can be a reasonable choice for a CCW gun that may well be required to stop a man full of excitement and adrenalin? If so, I’d be interested in why. If not, I’d be even more interested in why not. "

My answer to the question posed is YES. I believe the 32 S&W long suitably loaded can be a viable manstopper. The reason behind this is that the target (an aggressive human) is a complete wild card. In my experience I have seen grown men take multiple hits from 7.62X51 out of a M240G and still go a substantial distance before falling to their wounds. Same thing with multiple hits from 5.56. I have also seen men drop in their tracks from a single hit from both rounds. The same can more than likely be said for 45 ACP and 9x19, but I have not witnessed it.
Shot placement is a huge factor along with ME so on and so forth, but the mindset, adrenalin, possible drug or alcohol influence all factor in as well. IMO carry the caliber you are proficient and cofident in using. Like they say a hit with a 22 is better than a miss with a 45. Personally I feel very adequately armed when I carry any caliber, but my CCW of choice is the glock 26 loaded with 147gr hydra shoks. As has been said before in this thread people have a serious aversion to being shot.

[Molly]

I've got the neighbors saving milk jugs for me, so I'll have a bunch soon. What's a SWAG for the number of jugs needed in a row to stop a Hornady 85 gr. XTP/HP going about 900 fps?

Take a look at post #87, which isn't mine, but will give you as much as I know until I am able to run my own tests.

[Dark Helmet]

Start with 8- and a good backstop for insurance

[Molly]

Here is some interesting information re water jug testing:

http://ingunowners.com/forums/access...er_report.html

And here's some EXTENSIVE testing, not only with water jugs, but with wet newspapers, mud & other test media, for a variety of calibers. Don't click on this one unless you seriously need to burn up some time.

http://usrange.org/smf/index.php?PHP...e62&board=39.0

Turns out there's a LOT of similar testing data available. Just do a search on the internet. The key words I used were "gallon water denim"

[Molly]

The weather is beginning to moderate. It's pouring rain at the moment, but every so often we get a rainless day now, so maybe in a few weeks we can get to the water jug penetration tests.

Meanwhile, Makeminea10mm sent me a copy of the 'Taffin Tests" article of Sept / Oct 1955 entitled "The .32 Long" that made some mighty interesting reading. In particular, while discussing reloads for the 32 Long, he makes the comment that "2.5g of Bullseye under a 98g Speer HBWC at 901 FPS was ... not all that bad as a defensive round ..."

If so, my own offering of a case almost full of H-110 under a 115g SWC may not be as inadequate as some have suggested. It does have some significant pizzaz (I've GOT to get it chronographed!), and strikes about a foot+ high at 50 yards from my fixed sight S&W M31-1. At defensive ranges, that amounts to exactly dead on point of aim.

And that load puts it's shots into the same slightly enlarged hole from a nice little Rook rifle in 32 H&R Mag. Trouble is, I suspect that any squirrel I shot with it would convert into a pink mist, floating gently in the breeze ...

[EMC45]

Seeing how my newly sized (to .314) bullets are firing to POA/POI, and also I am getting some Tuff Products speed strips, I think the little Smith Model 30 will start riding on my hip real soon. The weather is real sunny and nice here to, so I will break out the chronograph (maiden voyage) and see what my FPS is. I feel that if a good many folks carry the .25 and .32 ACP and the .22LR for defense why should I feel "under-gunned" carrying the .32 S&W-L? The FPE is pretty impressive when you do the calculations. And the RCBS bullet is real nice and also accurate. Now it's time to stitch up a nice IWB strong side hip holster.....

[dualsport]

In case anybody interested in this thread missed it there's a GB underway for a 115 gr. RNFP that should be just the ticket for these .32s. I'm on the list. In the mean time a friend sent me some .32s from a previous GB here, I think it was a Lee mold. I'll try a shot at the milk jugs with that too.

[Matt_G]

In case anybody interested in this thread missed it there's a GB underway for a 115 gr. RNFP that should be just the ticket for these .32s.

Looks like that buy is here:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=108987

Too bad Swede can't do brass. They tried it and had problems so brass isn't on the table anymore.
Details here:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=109535

[EMC45]

Finally loaded up the chronograph and shot some rounds over it. I was using the RCBS 32-098 and 2.3gr. Bullseye with a CCI SP primer. The 5 shot AVG. was 677 FPS. definitely not a screamer. Very accurate load though. It is generating 101 FPE. These were shot through a Smith Mod 30 3in. I shot at a pressure treated 2X6 at about 7 yds and it passed straight through.I know it is not tissue or bodily fluid, but I was impressed with that.I will do some more testing soon.........