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Thread: The .32 S&W Long as a man-stopper

  1. #721
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    Gotcha! I will revert to my suggestion of using any of the 95-105 gr lead SWCs over a mild load of Bullseye or HP38 for practice. There’s nothing really wrong with this as an EDC load too, but if you subscribe to the school of thought that dictates factory ammo for carry, I’ve never found a load I like better to fit her criteria than that JHP load from Georgia Arms. Everyone who has ever shot one of my I- or J frame revolvers with either of those, including my then 19 year old niece and her cheerleader buddy who were pretty much novices with handguns, liked and did well with them. BTW, the niece was barely five feet tall and very slightly built. She ended up with a Model 30-1 that she shoots quite well, even though career and motherhood have cut down on her opportunities to shoot.

    Froggie
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  2. #722
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    This revolver is substantially lighter than those guns you have used. And I cannot see any prosecutor charging a waifish woman with being ‘bloodthirsty” for using low velocity low powered non expanding ammo so a handload versus a factory load is a nonstarter.

    At low power levels the ballistic consistency of wadcutters is substantially better than a conventionally seated bullet in the 32 Long. Said by a guy who has specifically tested for position sensitivity in the cartridge. A lot.

    And by the way avoid Hodgdon Universal like the plague in 32 Long. Absolutely horrible with SWC or RN 98 odd grain weight bullets.

    My perspective is that I am working with small person starting to get on the frail side so my options are sort of narrowed.
    Last edited by 35remington; 05-25-2022 at 08:06 PM. Reason: Danged auto correct and needed to explain better

  3. #723
    Boolit Buddy challenger_i's Avatar
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    Hugely long thread, so this may have been suggested, previously. If so, I apologize for the duplication.

    The main premise I have seen, thus far, is for a higher-powered 32 SW Long. Let's step back from that, for a moment.
    The idea of a Man Stopper is to convince said man that he has been walloped by something that is more than an inconvenience in his mission (in this case, doing bodily harm to someone not inclined to be handled thusly).
    Take a page from the old OSS from The Big War: Their favorite Man Stopper, in close combat, was the .38 Special, with a 148gr Hollow-Base Wad Cutter, seated upside-down, over 3 gr of Bullseye. Was very effective. I have conducted tests with this load on resilient, human flesh-like material (ok, it was a large ham, not frozen!) at 15 paces. The 38 HBWC travelled 6 inches +/- and expanded to the size of a quarter and stopped. The wound channel was impressive.

    So, why not use the same principle with the .32 SW Long?
    Rights, and Privileges, are not synonymous. We have the Right to Bear Arms. As soon as the Government mandates firearm registration, and permiting, then that Right becomes a Privilege, and may be taken away at our Master's discretion.

  4. #724
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    Under penetration is the problem. A low velocity bullet cannot penetrate deeply while expanding widely, and if you can have only one penetration is the thing.

    A reversed wadcutter won’t get you there. See pettypace’s input here and elsewhere for a deeper dive on the matter. A nonexpanding wadcutter without hollow cavity to the front is much superior in that regard.

  5. #725
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    Quote Originally Posted by 35remington View Post
    Under penetration is the problem. A low velocity bullet cannot penetrate deeply while expanding widely, and if you can have only one penetration is the thing.
    A reversed wadcutter won’t get you there. See pettypace’s input here and elsewhere for a deeper dive on the matter. A nonexpanding wadcutter without hollow cavity to the front is much superior in that regard.
    I'll defer to the discussions on the inverted wadcutters, unless perhaps they can be (accurately) propelled at higher velocities. A non-expanding wadcutter (NOT inverted) is likely the way to go, but I might be tempted to alternate inverted WCs with properly loaded ones, both propelled as fast as pressures and accuracy allow.
    Another possibility is to load two wadcutters, next to one inverted wadcutter, and plan to shoot in "Mozambique" mode (2 in the chest, one in the head). The inverted wadcutter need not penetrate much to do some severe damage to the cranium.
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  6. #726
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    I am firmly convinced that an extremely hard-cast semi-wadcutter boolit is the way to go. When loaded to the maximum prudent pressure levels, a properly placed .32 S&W Long will stop, if not terminate, the bad guy.

    Breaching the sternum and punching holes in vital organs is an excellent beginning.
    "Faster than a speeding insult, more powerful than an ulterior motive, able to leap to conclusions in a single bound... it's Captain Obvious!
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  7. #727
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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKdLQSonVYI

    This guy carries an LCR in .327 and has done quite a bit of testing with all of the .32 rounds. I am pretty impressed with how well the .32 S&W Long does in these tests. My mom went and got her Concealed Carry license at the age of 71 after my dad passed away and being a 4'11" 90 pound woman in her 70s can't manipulate the slide on many or any pistols. For this reason I set her up with a Beretta tip up barrel .22lr and that is what she has. I was going to try to get her into an LCR in .22 magnum but the trigger on those is not as easy a pull as one in a .32 or .38 centerfire. Then I came across the little Charter Arms snubbie in .32 H&R mag that can be had for just over three Benjamins and have great triggers. I'm trying now to talk her into one of these that I'll load with some form of .32 S&W Long in either a full wadcutter or swc bullet.

  8. #728
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    That’s what I am contemplating as well. For good reason I prefer wadcutter over SWC especially in light loads.

  9. #729
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    The .32 S&W Long as a man-stopper

    For the second time I am the owner of a S&W model 331 32 H&R magnum, 12 oz. of Scandium and Titanium. Didn’t keep my handload notes from when I owned the first one almost 20 years ago.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Going to start out with a 100 gr. coated FP, 3.0 grain of W231 in 32 Long case. Works okay in other 32 revolvers. Also going to try a 75 gr. FP with the same charge.
    Last edited by tejano; 08-04-2022 at 02:20 PM.

  10. #730
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    Oh man!
    Where do you shop?
    I’ve never even seen 1 of those in real life much less owned 2!
    Dang!
    I’ll bet you keep this one!
    "Time and money don't do you a bit of good until you spend them." - My Dad

  11. #731
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    I had to “settle for” a 4” Model 631 with adjustable sights… in 32 H&R, of course. I dare say it will see a bunch of 32 S&W Ls over the next few years, but I still feel like for a “man stopper” (the theme of this thread) that “more is better” and for “social work” the 32 H&R almost-Magnum will get the nod.

    Froggie
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  12. #732
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    Quote Originally Posted by shooting on a shoestring View Post
    Oh man!
    Where do you shop?
    I’ve never even seen 1 of those in real life much less owned 2!
    Dang!
    I’ll bet you keep this one!
    McBride's in Austin. No doubt, you have been there. Just happened to be there at the right time. Its near twin in 38 Special came in at the same time.

  13. #733
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    My neighbor (now deceased) always ate, slept, and so forth with an old colt pistol chambered in 32 S&W Long. I remember because he refused to sell it to me lol. It had a set of wood grips with five or so notches cut out of it. He was rather fond of shooting people in the rear as they left in a hurry. One fellow tried to break into the elderly lady's house next to him. She screamed and out the door he came with pistol in hand. The fellow saw him and ran. He carried a 32 round home with him lol.

    Another friend of mine carried a 32 ACP one night when a robber wanted his money. The single 32 acp round landed in his belly. The lad stopped, dropped the knife, stuck his hands out and said "please don't shoot me again...can you get me an ambulance?" and sat there on the spot bleeding until help arrived lol.

    My buddy Jeremiah (now doing life in prison) that I grew up with came into school twice after his grandpa shot him in the rear with a 25acp ball round over a poker game. He was about 15-16 years old at the time. His grandfather didn't take any backtalk or smack talking lol. Although I do love old school rounds my absolute personal minimum for edc would be a 327 Federal Magnum.

  14. #734
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    Brasshog, you grew up in a very interesting neighborhood. Most of us would be sort of excited to have had one of those stories to relate, and from the way you write, I’m guessing there may have been more.

    Froggie
    "It aint easy being green!"

  15. #735
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    My parents got divorced when I was ten and we eventually moved from Florida to Maryland. I met Jerimiah there in the beginning of high school. I worked with his girlfriend Tina. That was around 1986 and we lived in the flat tops if you know what I mean. Jerimiah and Tina were on the outs when Tina started seeing another fella whilst he was in the jail. Jerimiah got out and went home to find another man there. When he raised the gun to kill the man Tina, while holding their baby, stepped in between them to stop Jerimiah. The bullet passed through child, mother, and man killing all three.

    The first two stories are from my home town and yes I have many other stories. The guy with the 32 acp was my maintenance man at the place I was living at back around 1995. He run an old juke joint down the road back in the woods called "The Outer Limits" and yes it was on the other side of the tracks. He was closing up and was walking to his truck with the till from the night when a patron tried to rob him. Some of my stories are relevant to this thread while many others are not such as my other neighbor who got convicted of 17 murders. He really wasn't a bad ol boy. He was just set in the "old ways" and took it to the extreme.

    I remember growing up here and the sheriff had his number in the phone book back then because we didn't have 911. There was only him and two deputies three towns over. Often times if they came out for a call nearby they would stop by and check on us and we would invite them to supper on an occasion. Back in those days justice was dealt rather quickly and quietly. There was no shortage of rusty nails and hammers back in those days if you assaulted a lady or child.

    One time a guy tried breaking into my home on x-mas eve. He was met by a bulldog and a pump 16ga. He quickly exited the window that he was half way in before I could get a shot off. Long story short I called the sheriff at home and his wife told me he was at Waffle House eating supper while at work (his norm at 2am). I called Waffle House and asked for him. When he answered this is what we said after the initial information was conveyed...
    Sheriff-"Did ya kill 'em?"
    Me- "Nope. He ran off and I opened the door to introduce him to the dawg but the b@stard had unscrewed my motion lights out back so I called the dawg back"
    Sheriff-"Did ya at least fire off a couple of shots in order to try to wound him?"
    Me- "Nope"
    Sheriff-"Well if ain't nobody dying do you mind if I finish my supper first and then I'll come on by ?"
    Me-"Sounds good to me"

    The sheriff showed up thirty minutes later and I walked him through everything. He told me to call him next time when I killed him. He wanted a cold body to take to the morgue and not some idiot to sit in jail lol. He said to fire until I was empty next time so that he knew what was there waiting for him if he decided to come back....oh the good old days

  16. #736
    Boolit Buddy Walstr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by imashooter2 View Post
    Here is an opinion that I've been mulling over for a long time. It goes back to a time when I was thinking about the anemic rim fire cartridges used in vest pocket pistols in the later part of the 19th century...

    Once upon a time, medical science was not what it is today. People had a real fear of being shot and dieing from infection a month later. Any pistol had a real deterrent effect. As time moved on and medical science improved, the fear of being shot lessened and so firearms carriers began to move to cartridges that had a better chance of actually stopping a determined adversary.

    Now for sure, some serious shooters always carried as big a ball as they could find. But the general perception of "adequate" keeps drifting higher...
    Awesome perspective IMASHOOTER2, nice job.
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  17. #737
    Boolit Buddy HumptyDumpty's Avatar
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    I've settled on 2.7 grains of Red Dot, beneath a 100 grain semi-wadcutter. In my H&R 733, the velocity is 880 fps. This is from a 2 1/2" barrel; compare that to Buffalo Bore's 100 grain wadcutter load, which they chronographed at 835 and 872 from a three-inch barrel, and it appears that my load is just about at the top-end of what these little revolvers can handle, yet it's still easy to shoot. From my 327 Federal Sp101, the 32 Long can be loaded much hotter, but that's not really in the spirit of this thread.

  18. #738
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    A friend of mine gave me his favorite recipe for 32 H&R and a 105 HPGC. Somehow I got confused and thought he was suggesting it for a 32 S&W Long. Since it was hot for the H&R (according to the “book” at least) those 50 rounds were pretty rowdy in my I frame snub, but really not too bad in the Model 16-3 I had just had recreated. If I were still carrying that little snub as my concealed carry piece, that load would be just right during an adrenaline dump.
    Froggie
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  19. #739
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    Quote Originally Posted by HumptyDumpty View Post
    I've settled on 2.7 grains of Red Dot, beneath a 100 grain semi-wadcutter. In my H&R 733, the velocity is 880 fps. This is from a 2 1/2" barrel; compare that to Buffalo Bore's 100 grain wadcutter load, which they chronographed at 835 and 872 from a three-inch barrel, and it appears that my load is just about at the top-end of what these little revolvers can handle, yet it's still easy to shoot. From my 327 Federal Sp101, the 32 Long can be loaded much hotter, but that's not really in the spirit of this thread.
    A bit warmer than what I use.... 2.3 gr Red Dot for 831FPS, in a 4" 636... Shoots so Very Nice, I prolly won't change that one Much...

  20. #740
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    One thing to consider as far as reloads for 32 S&W Long are concerned is that factory loads and even reloading manual recommendations for this caliber must allow for the plethora of revolvers chambered for it over the last century and a quarter. Quality and strength of these guns have been all over the charts.

    When I load for any S&W J- or K frame, I know that I have a good margin of safety with them. With modern brass, case strength ceases to be much of a consideration, so in essence a K-32 becomes equivalent to a 38 Spl and a Model 30-1 or 31-1 becomes a real pocket rocket if you’ve gotten sufficient trigger time to control it. These fall into a neglected area of study because factories have to be concerned about the older, weaker 32s.

    The same situation is echoed to some degree with the 32 H&R magnum wannabe because it had to be usable in the H&R guns, so it was not until the arrival of the 327 Fed Mag that manufacturers could push the limits safely… there are no “Saturday Night Specials” chambered in 327 FM!

    Froggie
    "It aint easy being green!"

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check