Do Cast Bullets Swell as they Age?

[Shooter]

I once loaded some .45's with Lee TL bullets while they were fresh. I fired a few and they worked fine. A month or so later, quite a few won't chamber in my Gold Cup.

Are they expanding as they age?

How can I use this to my advantage?

[RobS]

Alloys that have antimony in them can become larger as they age, especially water quenced at about .0003-.0005 with WW alloy. I've not loaded any such as you and took measurements so I can't comment with certainty with your particular situation though. A more likelyhood could be that if you reloaded them within a day or so they were soft enough that when chambering they would swag down inside the case as the brass was pushed into the chamber by the cycling of the round. Now with time the bullets age hardened and they won't swag down.

What alloy were you using and were your bullets air cooled (I'm thinking they were) or water quenched?

[BABore]

Alloys with antimony present will grow with age. The more, the bigger and faster. Sizing after heat treating seems to control growth. I had a batch of 0.478 boolit cast from WW's. Part of the batch was water dropped, sized, and lubed. Another part were cast air cooled and then sized. I later heat treated this batch. Two years down the road, the second batch had grown to 0.484 diameter whereas the first batch remained as sized. This growth can be usefull for those situations where say you need a bigger BR nose. Planning and patients rules.

[Shooter]

What alloy were you using and were your bullets air cooled (I'm thinking they were) or water quenched?

Pure WW air cooled. Lee .200 Gr. TL over 3 Gr. BE loaded in a Dillon Square Deal.

I salvaged them by running the part way into a .45 sizing die with the de-prime removed.

[RobS]

BABore:

Darn you have boolits around that long......... My boolits are always in a hurry and eager to go somewhere.

My measurements were given as sized shortly after and only after a month or so. Two years.........Wow.

[RobS]

Pure WW air cooled. Lee .200 Gr. TL over 3 Gr. BE loaded in a Dillon Square Deal.

I salvaged them by running the part way into a .45 sizing die with the de-prime removed.

When you loaded them fresh, I'm guessing within a few days or less and when did you shoot them?

I'm betting if you loaded and shot them within a few days what I was talking about above is more than likely the culprit.

[Jailer]

Pure WW air cooled. Lee .200 Gr. TL over 3 Gr. BE loaded in a Dillon Square Deal.

I salvaged them by running the part way into a .45 sizing die with the de-prime removed.

Run them through a Lee factory crimp die. That should get them to chamber.

[deltaenterprizes]

Do you have one of the max cartridge gauges from Midway or Dillon? If not remove the barrel and use it as a guage. Is all the brass the same make? Different make brass will have different wall thickness, military being the thickest and Remington being the thinnist I have encountered.
I have loaded ammo for practice in match grade barrels tighter than a Gold Cups chamber with boolits made from 50/50 lead lino sized to .451''and had no problems, but like RobS they did not stay around too long. I have some of those same boolits that are over 10 years old, I will have to go measure them.

[deltaenterprizes]

Run them through a Lee factory crimp die. That should get them to chamber.

The sizing die is doing the same thing. I found that when I used the LEE factory crimp die it sizes down the boolit and the brass expanded and made the boolit loose in the case.

[RobS]

I salvaged them by running the part way into a .45 sizing die with the de-prime removed.

Shooter:

You have solved your feeding problems, but may have created another. Have you shot any of these reloads that you have sized through your case sizing die. I wonder if you are going to have leading. Let me further explain as what you've done with your case sizing die as it is similar to the Lee FCD principle.

The thing about the FCD for straight wall cases is it does not make things right as the dies description states, it is merely taking over the part of the operation which was not done correct in the first place which in most situations means sizing boolits to the incorrect size or crimping improperly. The FCD does work for many and here are some reasons why. When people use water quenched boolits, they spring back after being run through the Lee FCD die much the same as when sizing a hard boolit in a regular lube/sizing die. The FCD die also works for people who have tighter spec barrels so the swagging on their boolits doesn't create the problems that others see who have barrels with larger diameters.

The die does swag down softer air cooled boolits such as WW alloy and other alloys as well and there are countless stories of people pulling bullets and measuring and then later using the same bullets and seating and crimping with another die resulting in un-swaged bullets. One of Lee's straight wall FCD dies that doesn't swag down boolits as hard is the 45 colt die as its carbide ring doesn't hold as tight of tolerance to caliber as the other dies in their lineup. Probably because Lee designed it with the thought that 45 colt has a larger array of barrel diameters with some older revolvers having larger groove diameter barrels and the more recent firearms having smaller diameter barrels. The reason why there are standard .454 and .452 bullets as well as .452 and .454 molds on the market for 45 colt.

[Shooter]

They were loaded and fired as soon as the tumble lube dryed, no more than 2 days after casting.

These are long gone plinkers.

The cases are RP match.

There was no leading.

[RobS]

Glad there was no leading. It helped a great deal that you didn't work the entire boolit though the die; the base of the boolits were still at the diameter they were before and only the top half of them were swagged down.

[Murphy]

I've been casting for 25+ years and never noticed any of my boolits swelling with time.

Now wives on the other hand.......


Murphy

[44man]

I've been casting for 25+ years and never noticed any of my boolits swelling with time.

Now wives on the other hand.......


Murphy

Now that s not only funny but 100% true. They all grow a boxcar butt!
But yes, my .476 boolits grow to .478 with a few weeks.

[Bass Ackward]

I have seen the flip side too. Just as they expand with the hardening process, they will shrink back as the softening process settles in. I have never seen them go below molded diameter though.

After a year or so, they seem to stay pretty stable what ever that hardness / diameter measurement is.

[BABore]

I have seen the flip side too. Just as they expand with the hardening process, they will shrink back as the softening process settles in.

John,

We're talking boolits here. Try some ****** for your problem.

[HATCH]

Got a question for you folks now....
what if I cast a bunch up and then wait a month before sizing them.
Basically allow them to age expand, then size them to size.
Will they still bounce back later?

[Von Gruff]

I have had quite dramatic "swelling"of my boolits some time after casting and sizing, at least the ones I have recovered have shown a "swelling" form .2855 out to about .577. I will rely on that on Tue when I hope to re-test this phenominem on some goats.


Von Gruff.

[deltaenterprizes]

I checked my boolits and they mic at .453, there is some corosion from being in saltwater but I think they started out at .451.
Ihave been shooting these in a Wilson Match barrel with no feeding problems and I know the Wilson chamber is tighter than a Colt Gold Cup, I have at least 3 of them.

[RobS]

Got a question for you folks now....
what if I cast a bunch up and then wait a month before sizing them.
Basically allow them to age expand, then size them to size.
Will they still bounce back later?

No, not in reference to being for example .452 one day and then .453 the next. However if the alloy is hard enough such as water quenched WW alloy at 20ish BHN then the alloy has the ability to have spring back. An air cooled ww bullet sized with a .452 die comes out at .452 and that same die and a harder bullet will read let's say .4525 or .453 after being sized due to bullet spring back. The best bet if they are going to be hard is to size them right after casting as I've seen the least amount of change in diameter this route.