ball size matters

Either from laziness or habit, I had always used .440" balls in 45 caliber guns. They worked great in everything except an old single trigger Cherokee I picked up about 10 years ago. No matter what I tried I just couldn't get it to shoot very well. Recently I was re-reading my Dutch Shoultz book and he kept talking about using the biggest ball you could load. So I thought why not, and ordered a .445" mold. I shot it some today and by gosh if it's not a one hole gun at 25 yards now! And that's with a 60 grain load, plenty of power for shooting deer. I am very happy with the rifle now, and amazed at myself for not making that leap a long time ago. I guess when a rifle doesn't work well it gets put in the back of the safe and forgotten for a bit. But a little 6 lb rifle is going to be a joy to carry in the woods this fall.

It always surprises me when I discover a problem I'm having has a relatively simple solution and often one related to basics. I have learned that instead of fighting with something setting it aside and returning to it later often gives me a fresh perspective and the solution is found much more easily. I'm glad you found your solution.

My old lyman 2 ball steel mold is .445, was bought for a CVA .45 caplock. It shot well for me, never even considered smaller.

I shoot .451/pillow ticking in the old school Douglas barrels. (but not for hunting)
for fast reload use smaller ball

Attachment 303025No argument at all with ball size, but please recognize that T/C bbl. dimensions varied more than we realize and that's probably true of other manufacturers as well. E.g., I too owned a .45cal. Cherokee and got spectacular accuracy with a .440" RB and .015" patch. My Isaac Haines .54cal. (Rice bbl.) OTOH shoots a .530" RB well enough, but does even better with a .535" RB and .012" patch. (See image below: 10 shots, 25 yd, rested, I. Haines)

By contrast the old Numerich barrels took a 435 or 437 ball, I still have the mould that came with my H and A Underhammer in the 60;s.

I always used Hornady .433 in my H&A 45 called but it was a 44. I believe they stated that for states with a stupid F&G dept.

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Originally Posted by Maven

Attachment 303025No argument at all with ball size, but please recognize that T/C bbl. dimensions varied more than we realize and that's probably true of other manufacturers as well. E.g., I too owned a .45cal. Cherokee and got spectacular accuracy with a .440" RB and .015" patch. My Isaac Haines .54cal. (Rice bbl.) OTOH shoots a .530" RB well enough, but does even better with a .535" RB and .012" patch. (See image below: 10 shots, 25 yd, rested, I. Haines)

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You are right about that. I can't remember ever using a pin gauge to check this barrel but it's obviously a bit bigger than any of my other 45s because it's the only one I can load this ball/patch combo into easily. It's just amazing, you give a barrel what it likes and it will shoot. They're funny that way. Big bore and shallow rifling, I guess they were trying to come up with something that would shoot conicals or balls so what they achieved wasn't optimal for either one.

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Originally Posted by Nobade

Either from laziness or habit, I had always used .440" balls in 45 caliber guns. They worked great in everything except an old single trigger Cherokee I picked up about 10 years ago. No matter what I tried I just couldn't get it to shoot very well. Recently I was re-reading my Dutch Shoultz book and he kept talking about using the biggest ball you could load. So I thought why not, and ordered a .445" mold. I shot it some today and by gosh if it's not a one hole gun at 25 yards now! And that's with a 60 grain load, plenty of power for shooting deer. I am very happy with the rifle now, and amazed at myself for not making that leap a long time ago. I guess when a rifle doesn't work well it gets put in the back of the safe and forgotten for a bit. But a little 6 lb rifle is going to be a joy to carry in the woods this fall.

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I used to converse with Dutch Schoultz all the time - I got him hooked on my home made smoked venison jerky sticks and would send some to him every year. In turn, he helped me turn my front loaders into "one-hole" machines. I had a .54 that would never shoot worth a d*** and he recommended I keep raising the powder charge until I could see red flecks in the fouling (molten sulfur). Finally got to 90 grs FFg with patched round ball and it suddenly went from 2-3" at 50 yds to shooting caliber sized groups of about .60 total diameter. The balls would stack on top of each other in the sand pile. Did the same with my 45 rifle and it liked 70 grs. with a PRB.

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Originally Posted by HWooldridge

I used to converse with Dutch Schoultz all the time - I got him hooked on my home made smoked venison jerky sticks and would send some to him every year. In turn, he helped me turn my front loaders into "one-hole" machines. I had a .54 that would never shoot worth a d*** and he recommended I keep raising the powder charge until I could see red flecks in the fouling (molten sulfur). Finally got to 90 grs FFg with patched round ball and it suddenly went from 2-3" at 50 yds to shooting caliber sized groups of about .60 total diameter. The balls would stack on top of each other in the sand pile. Did the same with my 45 rifle and it liked 70 grs. with a PRB.

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Unfortunately, Dutch passed away recently.

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Originally Posted by waksupi

Unfortunately, Dutch passed away recently.

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Sorry to hear that - he was one of the good guys.

My son just tried. 520 patched ball in his .54 cal Kit Carson as opposed to the .530 he was using. A little less accurate, but still good, and much easier to load for him. That was with a .015 patch - next time we go with the .020 patch and see what happens.