Shooting for 1/2 Ounce in .38 cal: How Far Down the Bore?

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Originally Posted by fastdadio

I've been following this thread with some interest. Glad we don't have a rattler problem here in Mi. Seeing what the OP is trying to do, I see black powder as an answer, with several ways to approach it. Load the TC Encore with a primed case, and then load from the muzzle with about 30gr 3f, over powder card, then a paper patched load of shot, over shot card, and Bob's er uncle.

Years ago, I built a CVA .50 Kentucky pistol kit. Played with it a few years then had the rifling bored out to .54 smooth. Loaded with 28ga shot cups or just wads. 35grs fff was quite entertaining and I took a few grouse with it during our muzzle loading season. I eventually sold it off and replaced it with one of these boot guns that, similarly loaded, could also be some potent snake medicine.
https://oldarmsofidaho.com/product/c...-black-powder/

Personally, if I had a snake problem around the house, I'd likely get a long bbl. 38spl Derringer and load it heavy with bp and fine shot as suggested above. They make holsters for them that would make it convenient to carry around while doing chores.
https://www.budsgunshop.com/product_...-+long+bore+38
https://www.etsy.com/market/cobra_derringer_holster
http://www.timelyaccessories.com/Cob...-Holsters.html

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Interestingly enough, the idea of muzzle loading the shot with appropriate wads and whatnot occurred to me almost immediately after a minor mishap in testing. I had just filled and capped the first capsule I made when I let it roll off my workbench in a moment of inattention and it snapped right in the middle. The single-layer print is plenty fragile enough to disintegrate upon firing, but it's also so long and thin that it just isn't up to much abuse. Since changing the diameter isn't an option, it seemed obvious to me that getting rid of the capsule entirely might be an option.

I haven't done any additional experimenting with that yet, part of me wants to figure out how to deal with the donut pattern first. If that happens, I am very interested in cartridge-powered smokeless muzzle loading shot...shell? Shot loads? Errr... Yeah....

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Originally Posted by Daekar

That's a really good point which someone else politely PM'd me about as well. I suspect that would Not be legal to intentionally remove the rifling, but if you happened to find a neglected barrel where the bore had been smoothed by corrosion, it might achieve much the same thing without "intent." Oh, NFA, you are soo, soooo stupid...

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Or a badly leaded barrel?

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Originally Posted by Daekar

That's a really good point which someone else politely PM'd me about as well. I suspect that would Not be legal to intentionally remove the rifling, but if you happened to find a neglected barrel where the bore had been smoothed by corrosion, it might achieve much the same thing without "intent." Oh, NFA, you are soo, soooo stupid...

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Yes, I read some where that a 48 hr. sulphuric/salt soaking is the best method to remove copper fouling from the bore of your cheap replacement barrel.....

Ah, the temptation continues to escalate! Match Grade Machine got back to me and said that they would be happy to produce an unrifled 18"+ barrel with a 357mag chamber for my Encore. That, gents, is the best possible outcome! A baby shotgun barrel that works with the brass I already have and almost certainly would accommodate muzzle-loaded shot as well (with the right wads, etc).

Or is it the best outcome, really? If I'm playing Devil's advocate with myself, I'd have to point out that it would be way cheaper and probably more effective to buy an inexpensive 410 like the Rossi Tuffy and buy the 303 or 444 brass to use with it. If you figure the Encore barrel is going to cost $500 minimum (we didn't get to prices), that's a new Tuffy + $300 worth of brass and components.

Dammit, brain, why can't you just settle on a thing!? It's not like any of this is necessary anyway, we have a perfectly-serviceable 20ga at home.

Why am I broken, lol?

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/927207877

Half the price of the Encore barrel. Cheap (or free) 20 ga hulls. Make up a light 3/4 oz load for snakes and have a couple of buckshot loads on board on a side saddle in case a coyote shows up.

We had one of these for years: https://projectupland.com/shotguns-a...404e0887accf92 My son used to toss it in his tool box - I think somebody stole it at a truck stop.

You could likely get a blank barrel rifled with little to no twist - say 1 turn in 120". Would also make a decent round ball shooter when you weren't shooting skeet...

And then there's that judge thing that chambers .410/45lc

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Originally Posted by Daekar

OK, report from the first test. Success!

Makes me want to find a neglected 357mag barrel and drill out the rifling.

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Phil Sharpe's book has a whole section on shot loads for pistols. He also mentions smooth-bore revolvers, however, you might be skating against the edges of the law. If I recall correctly There was one manufacturer a few years ago who made a barrel (or threaded choke tube?) with straight grooves to make it "rifled" and legal.

Wayne

somewhere on here is a very detailed thread unmaking 444 shot shells . no cause but using cardboard or thin foam if I remember right and it might have been a fast powder like bulls eye or red dot. if you get serious about making shot shells like this because you have a snake or pest problem it might be real worthwhile to invest in #11 or #12 shot.

I have a couple coffee cans full of trap mix lead shot, 7, 8 and 9's. If you can use, also have some bagged shot would have to check sizes.

A long time ago, E.P. Alexander carried an old fashioned single shot horse pistol, while his contemporaries carried revolvers. He was fond of grouse for supper when he could manage. He wrote a couple of books about his experiences, and his contemporaries, that are worth reading. Oh, and he commanded the largest artillery .barrage in North American history, too.

I wonder if trimming a .38 Special case to a length between .38 Short Colt & .38 Long Colt to enable a longer "payload" section might help. A "buck & ball" combination with .360" pure lead ball ahead of all the #9 or #12 skeet shot that can be stacked in the column MIGHT get you there. I wonder if separating the propellant from the bottom of the shot column with a gas check (inverted?) then capping the shot column similarly might work better than a single .360" ball.
Just a thought.

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Originally Posted by fastdadio

Years ago, I built a CVA .50 Kentucky pistol kit. Played with it a few years then had the rifling bored out to .54 smooth.

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How did you have the rifling bored out? I'm wondering if it could be done to a rifle-length barrel. If a muzzle-loader rifle could be converted to a shotgun.

This is one of those "for what it's worth" comments...

I spent Sunday afternoon cleaning underbrush from around my stock tank, which is primarily fed by storm water so we get a lot of debris washed in. There were several old paper plates laying around so I hung one in a tree at eye level and paced off 20 steps before letting loose with a Speer shot capsule in my 44-40 revolver. At that distance, not one #9 pellet hit the plate - but the same pistol with this load destroys snakes at normal snake ranges of a few steps away.

A "normal" handgun just can't accomplish much with a shot load unless you are right on top of whatever you are trying to hit.

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Originally Posted by sknhgy

How did you have the rifling bored out? I'm wondering if it could be done to a rifle-length barrel. If a muzzle-loader rifle could be converted to a shotgun.

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I didn't do the work. I worked in the auto factory for GM, and had the tool and die guys there do it for me. Not sure exactly what tooling they used, but they did a really nice job on it. I regret selling it now. I keep looking at Harpers Ferry replicas to replace it with.
Sadly, they're a bit out of my price range for a toy to fill that niche, and the fact that I already have a very unique .44 smooth bore double barrel with a folding stock that fills the bill nicely.
I see no reason why a gun smith/barrel maker couldn't bore a rifle out smooth. The question is how much, and is it worth it instead of just buying a shotgun? Maybe find a neglected rifle with a badly rusted bore for cheap?
The Harpers Ferry; available with a rock lock also. This boarding pistol really blows me skirt up.....
https://www.davide-pedersoli.com/en/...version-pistol

My .44 smooth bore double barrel muzzle loader;
Attachment 298559
Attachment 298560

Sounds this is heading into the project creep death spiral. ;)

Omg that boarding pistol is gorgeous! Why don't they make smokeless muzzle loaders that look like that?

54 cal would be plenty of space for shot...

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Originally Posted by Daekar

Omg that boarding pistol is gorgeous! Why don't they make smokeless muzzle loaders that look like that?

54 cal would be plenty of space for shot...

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Not sure why you want it in smokeless. It would cost more to produce. Black powder is safer, and will do anything you could want the pistol to do and more.
Embrace the smoke. Come to the dark side, we have cookies.
:drinks:

I once saw a Contender .44 Mag barrel at a gun show for sale. The barrel had been reamed and you could still see the rifling but it was very, very shallow.
I suspect not enough to affect the shot package.
Now, I don't know what the BATF ruling is on rifling depth but it is something to think about./beagle

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Originally Posted by dverna

That may get you into trouble with the BATF. It might come under the definition of a short barreled shotgun. If you go that way, a call to confirm it is legal is warranted.

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