Star Sizer: O-Ring Issue, six lube dots....

I've been working w/ the Magma/Star sizer, and I've run into a couple of problems I cannot seem to resolve.

The sizer is new, the dies from Lathesmith.

First, I had an issue w/ scoring of bullets going through the die. I figured--rightly, as it turns out--that something was sticking out through one of the lube holes I'd blocked w/ #8 shot.

So I decided to remove the die and check it out. Well. Not such a good idea. The die jammed, which is to say the top O-ring was damaged and was blocking a clean exit of the die from the machine. I could *not* get it to come out. I decided to just close my eyes and yank it out of there, and it did pop past the destroyed O-Ring. It was cut into two pieces, as if the die had sheared off the exposed layer.

So there I was, one O-ring damaged beyond use. I checked the site here, there are a number of posts indicating the size to be 15/16 x 3/4 x 3/32. #14. I called Magma, they confirmed the size, indicated also it was a 116, whatever that size means. :)

Anyway, off to the store, collected several at 59 cents apiece. I cleaned out the die, found the debris that was scoring the bullets, greased up the die with a little petroleum jelly (and the rings, too), and tried to reinstall. I ripped the new O-Ring! I pulled it out, installed another one, and this time seemed to wiggle it in OK.

But I'm still having trouble w/ lube dots. I've read every thread I can find on it, all note that it's a symptom of either or both, too much pressure or too high of temperature. I've gotten both down to where I can't even get lube in the groove, and still there are lube dots.

Here's the interesting part: there are six of them, instead of just the three from the lube ports. I get it on both styles of bullets I'm running through the sizer:

Attachment 134584

Question: is it possible those dots are not from the unplugged lube ports, but rather it's lube that's making it past the plugged ports? The clue is that there are six such dots (easy to see on the right, trust me on the boolit on the left :) ).

I'm out of ideas here--all I can think of is that the "plugged" ports are not truly plugged, even though the shot was hammered into the holes as per directions.

BTW, using White Label Carnauba Red as a lube.

It might be that you didn't truely block the holes. I used #7 shot with no problems. Also make sure it is lead shot and not steel shot.

It also can be that you don't have the punch set correctly and the lube grove is not aligned with the open holes in the die.

I'd look at the holes again too.
I use 6 shot and mash it flat on the face of the die.

C-red has a flow point of about 95-f, you may have heat issues or it may be your handles transfer bar is hitting the transfer rod too soon and is allowing the lube to flow before your boolits are in place.

you really want the setup to be different operations like this.
size/cam over/lube squirt.
lift handle/put new boolit into the sizer/and lower the handle to again size/cam over/lube squirt.

run has about everything covered. Check lube action without a boolit in place to see if you have the lube pump timing, lube pressure screw, and lube temp right. If your boolits as cast size is a little on the small side for your sizing die, your lube temp needs to run a little cooler. I use 91degF and moderate screw pressure.

The best way to avoid messing O-rings when you remove them is to raise the lube temp a little before you remove it and keep plenty of spares near the sizer and they'll never tear again. Or buy more sizers so you don't have to change the dies.

I have dozens of Star dies, most are home made, and none have O-rings. None leak either.

My dies don't have o-rings either.

I just left the half an o-ring in there the second time I tore one. No leaks, or at least not enough for me to care.

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Originally Posted by bhn22

My dies don't have o-rings either.

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It's not the die that has O-rings. They're in the chamber in which the die sits. Part # S-140.

I pulled the die tonite, and in doing so tore the O-Ring again. The guy at Magma I spoke with earlier today said that the unit should be cool before removing the die. Opposite of what I would have thought--I'd have thought one would want the lube pliable, but apparently not. I cooled the chamber down w/ a couple ice cubes; didn't matter, I still tore the O-ring and it jammed the die as I tried to remove it. Eventually brute force removed it.

I thought that perhaps there was a burr on the bottom of the die that was tearing it as I inserted the die; I used emery cloth and some very fine emery paper to smooth the bevel at the base of the die, and it seemed to help it go into the unit.

With the die out, I used a roll-pin punch to drive the shot further into the lube holes; it seemed to help though I'm not sure it's completely sealed them. I think I'll drill out the blocked lube holes tomorrow and use #7 shot--I used #8, which the instructions say can be used.

I'm using Carnauba Red, but I've read in another thread that those who use it in the Star find it finicky, hard to dial in the right combination of temperature and pressure.

Any of you using CR in your Star? If not, why not, and what are you using? I read in one instance a simple switch to another lube eliminated the problems.

I have had no problems with white label lubes carnuba red. I tore 2 or three o rings in mine also. I no longer have the o ring at the top of the chamber. It oozes a very small amount. Not enough to worry about. Are you sure the timing is OK? You want the punch to reach it's full motion down before the lube pump gets activated.

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Originally Posted by VHoward

I have had no problems with white label lubes carnuba red. I tore 2 or three o rings in mine also. I no longer have the o ring at the top of the chamber. It oozes a very small amount. Not enough to worry about. Are you sure the timing is OK? You want the punch to reach it's full motion down before the lube pump gets activated.

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I'll double-check the timing tomorrow. I think it's ok but maybe not.

That you can get CR to work for you is good news. I think breaking the burr on the bottom of the die helped a lot--it went in a lot easier, I suspect it will be easier to ease it out now.

All of my dies are made by Lathsmith and are put in place without the o ring being in the Star. I tore the first one and never replaced it. Don't leak so I'll leave it alone. As far as the dots is it lube or scuff marks in the lead? It looks like it has to be some protrusion at the lube holes in the die since the dots are perfectly spaced around the boolit. Pull the die, boil it to remove the lube and check it.

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Originally Posted by mongoose33

I'll double-check the timing tomorrow. I think it's ok but maybe not.

That you can get CR to work for you is good news. I think breaking the burr on the bottom of the die helped a lot--it went in a lot easier, I suspect it will be easier to ease it out now.

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The timing is good. The punch is fully extended before the pump is activated.

Have you determined if the dots are lube or is the lead smeared?

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Originally Posted by altheating

Have you determined if the dots are lube or is the lead smeared?

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It's lube. Nice a bright red. :) Rubs right off w/ a paper towel.

On my carnuba red I set the temp for between 100 and 105 degrees and the air pressure around 40psi. The warmer your temp is, the lesser pressure you need on the lube reservior. You didn't mention if you have the air feed cylinder or not. It is a fine tuning of finding the right ratio of temp and pressure. If you want to operate at 95 degrees, then you need more pressure.

Also, when pushing a bullet through, when the bullet gets to the end of the travel, you only need to go just enough further with the handle to operate the lube pump. Only push on the lube pump stroke until you feel resistance, you don't need to stand on the handle. The stiffest part should be sizing the bullet, but you don't need to press hard on the lube pump part.

Rather than picking out the shot blocking the die holes, I sometimes purposely run my CR lube a little warmer when changing to a boolit with more lube grooves than exposed die holes. When running a little warm I will get little dots on the noses as the lube will flow slightly without the intensifier being engaged.

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Originally Posted by VHoward

On my carnuba red I set the temp for between 100 and 105 degrees and the air pressure around 40psi. The warmer your temp is, the lesser pressure you need on the lube reservior. You didn't mention if you have the air feed cylinder or not. It is a fine tuning of finding the right ratio of temp and pressure. If you want to operate at 95 degrees, then you need more pressure.

Also, when pushing a bullet through, when the bullet gets to the end of the travel, you only need to go just enough further with the handle to operate the lube pump. Only push on the lube pump stroke until you feel resistance, you don't need to stand on the handle. The stiffest part should be sizing the bullet, but you don't need to press hard on the lube pump part.

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I have a PID coming w/ a thermocouple I can glue to the heater, and Kyle's air kit coming as well. So I'll be able to fine-tune things like you indicate above.

I moved the location of the lube hole from the top to the middle; it's better, but I still have six dots from time to time. Closer. I decided the only thing to do was make up some rounds w/ the newly sized and lubed bullets and see what I could do with them. Nice rounds. :)

FWIW: I think some of the O-Ring problem is related to the shot plugging some of the lube holes. If the shot isn't peened down smooth with the body of the die, there's a lip or ledge or whatever that I think is catching on the O-ring.

I may experiment with this--I can take a 3/16 flat punch and smooth that shot down so there's nothing to catch on the O-ring. That said, I have been running the Star w/o the upper O-ring, and it doesn't seem to matter much.

Mongoose, if it's not leaking, leave the o ring out. Won't hurt a thing. Just have to ask, when you removed the die did you take all the pressure off the reservoir? I always use a heat gun to warm the area where the die is seated in and then pull it with all pressure off the lube reservoir. Did you ever figure out the lube dot thing?

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Originally Posted by altheating

Mongoose, if it's not leaking, leave the o ring out. Won't hurt a thing. Just have to ask, when you removed the die did you take all the pressure off the reservoir? I always use a heat gun to warm the area where the die is seated in and then pull it with all pressure off the lube reservoir.

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No, I didn't take off the pressure, but the tech guy I spoke w/ at Magma Engineering said that one should remove the dies when the press is cold, not warm. Didn't make much sense to me but that's what he said.

I replaced a die yesterday, the old one came out lickety-split.

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Did you ever figure out the lube dot thing?

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I'm closer. I have a PID running the heater now, so that's easier to control. The pressure screw is probably the important variable now. I have one of Kyle's air kits on order, and I suspect once I have that installed I'll have much better ability to balance pressure and temperature.