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Hey guys just a quick question. What’s the difference in RCBS Cowboy die sets and their standard 2 die sets? The cowboy offers a roll crimp but so do their standard sets. Just curious if they are worth the extra money. Thanks!
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I only have one set that I bought used and the only real difference I could see was the expander.
Good to know, thanks! In your opinion is the dedicated expander necessary? I’ve been using a Lee adjustable expander with no issuesQuote:
Originally Posted by pworley1
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I'd like to know too if the RCBS cowboy expander is really good
RCBS standard dies have an expander meant for jacketed bullets. We normally use bullets about 0.002” larger in diameter when we load cast bullets. If you use the standard expander, you will see the bullet being squeezed down by the case when seating the bullet. Therefore, they came out with “Cowboy dies”. These have a larger expander stem, reducing bullet squeeze during seating.
Some guns, Marlin micro groove in particular do not do well with small diameter bullets. Leading is the result.
Just my nickle……
Sam Sackett
RCBS "Cowboy" dies use a Lyman "M" type Expander die. That, the brass lock rings and a different colored box are it.
The cardboard box is not as durable as the standard RCBS plastic box.
The set I have in .38-55 has two expanders one for .377 and one for .379" projectiles. The larger one works well for my 336CB Marlin. Which tells me that in theory the sizing die is overworking the case mouth and neck for the larger projectiles.
Robert
I never researched it, but I'd heard the cowboy die sets were made more for cast boolits rather than jacketed.
If that's true, and with the lower pressures of cast, the sizer might be a little less 'aggressive' also.
I have a serious bias toward Lyman Reloading Dies with the M expander. In 32-20, is there any advantage to be gained by going with the RCBS Cowboy Die Set instead? With the current brass drought, I will be loading some virgin WW and Starline brass as well as some assorted once fired factory stuff from manufacturers I've forgotten, so I guess flexibility would be a plus.
I've got a Lee set as well as a Lyman 310 tool and Tru-Line Jr die set in 32-20 not to mention an old Winchester tong type reloading tool to work with now.
Froggie
Another difference in the cowboy expander vs the standard expander plug is the cowboy plug has the belling flair to flair the brass mouth making it easier to seat plain base boolits without shaving. I don't think a standard expander will flair a case.
I like the Lyman “M” expander because it flares the case mouth (with flair ;) )
Froggie
Froggie,
While I haven't compared the Lyman and RCBS Cowboy dies in the same caliber, I have a set of Lyman dies for the .25-20 and the aforementioned RCBS Cowboy dies in .38-55. Functionally, there isn't much difference; but I kind of like the Lyman set better.
This may be because I have several other M-dies, so am familiar with how they need to be adjusted.
If there is a significant difference in price, well I'm frugal (sounds so much better than cheap). If they are close in price; I'd go for the Lyman set, solely for the M-die.
Or you could use the M-die from another of your sets of .32 dies.
Robert
Just remembered,
A few years ago I had an issue with an old RCBS expander not expanding the case deep enough for a Lee 148 WC in .38 Special. A Lyman M-die solved the issue.
I didn't think of this at first, I have over a dozen .38/.357 dies that get used as needed.
R
I just ordered the RCBS Cowboy expander plug for my standard dies. They do work great for my cast bullets in .38 Special and .45 Colt. I have the Lyman M die for other rifle calibers. hc18flyer
I’ll have to look and see whether I have a Lyman die set in 32-20 (for a full size press). If not, I’m sure I have a Lee set, and I have a Lyman die for powder through the expander, and I believe that uses the “M” profile. It wouldn’t be the first time I’ve mixed up a hybrid set from different manufacturers to get the combination of features I want. I wonder whether my Lee set has the “factory crimp” feature.
Oh well, another pot on the stove. Got so many things cooking I’ve gotta make sure nothing boils over! I found a prepped bunch of GC .313 bullets in the 105-110 gr range… they should work well for my next run of 32-20s. Then I’ve gotta move revolver stuff to the back of the stove and prep for my Schuetzen event I’m running at the home club the end of the month. I shoot these bullets as-cast, but that means I’ve gotta cast them!!
Froggie
Both sets of RCBS Cowboy dies (44 & 357) that I purchased are carbide. They came in a black plastic box, not cardboard, anymore. The expander is larger for cast bullets, akin to the Lyman "M" expander. So, purchasing a set of the cowboy dies, negates having to purchase a separate/larger "M" type expander for cast.
The 44 set is labeled, 44 Russian/44 Special with no mention of 44 Magnum. However, I use the sizer, without decapping rod, to neck size my 44 Magnum brass for my Marlin. IIRC, the decapping rod is too short when attempting to full size 44 Magnum brass and decap in one step. Not an issue if you have a universal decapping die.
Winelover
Right ... Omit the Lyman M-Die expander for the required Lead Boolits and you have the standard Two Die set .Quote:
Originally Posted by Walks
The cowboy dies can load both cast and J-word boolits ... the standard two-die set ...Just J-words !
Gary
I’m not a fan of the RCBS cowboy expander, because the flaring portion on mine was spherical which made straight seating if the boolit problematic. I use Redding expanders (same as Lyman M), but I believe a custom expander (softer lead gets sized down by the brass) from Buffalo Arms or NOE is the best way to go. The M style expander makes it easier to seat the boolit squarely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Recycled bullet
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Hornady’s cowboy seating die is fantastic. Straightens the boolit during the seating operation, and does not deform soft lead hollow points.
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I just realized you are asking about rifle dies. I only load for pistols, so maybe what I wrote above does not apply.
This thread is reconfirming my studied opinion that it can be advantageous to mix and match to get the features you want. “Brand Snobbery” may get you a pretty and consistent looking reloading shelf, but if each component is chosen to do a specific job to your satisfaction, regardless of brand, you will get, IMHO at least, optimum reloading performance. Some sets, like the Cowboy set from RCBS, give their idea of optimum, but it can usually be improved upon if you look around.
Froggie