paper patch glue idea

Don't know if this would be of any use...

50+ years ago I was trying my hand at cast bullets. Managing to recover some fired slugs, I found that the back edge showed evidence of melting. Not wanting to get into gas checks, I cut paper disks to glue on the base. They seemed to help, but I was using epoxy (can't say why, other than being young and ignorant). It was messy and slow to cure.

Left that idea behind, but just today did some researching on the products of combustion of hot glue. The fire safety site I found named those products as carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide and some simple hydrocarbons.

Today I put a small lump of hot glue in a cheap stainless spoon and burned it. There was no visible residue.

As I said above, I don't know if this knowledge is of any use, but there it is.

The base of the bullet would have to be free of lube for the glue to stick.

I’ve heard that cards can work somewhat like gas checks. I have a hot glue gun, but don’t use it that much. I think I would try contact cement.

Why glue ? Just put a slightly over barrel/caliber diameter card under bullet, over powder,
if shooting black, there should not be any air space under bullet anyway ?
Any card stuck to bottom of bullet will cause accuracy problems ?

There used to be wax wads available... and apparently there still are:

https://www.cliffsgunsmithing.com/Cat_SGC.htm

IIRC it is the same name "CF Venture Soft Gas Checks"

I'd say easier than messing weith glue of any kind. The wax sheets are simply pressed over the mouth oif the cartridge after dropping powder then the boolit seated on top.

I have not used these but from what I have read they seem to provide some protection to PB boolit bases but not to the point of replacing gas checks. Tight fitting plastic disks or lubed hard cardboard should do much the same. It is easy to try to see if there is any benefit... or enough benefit to bother with.

Personally I would prefer the wax/plastic/cardboard part company with the boolit at the muzzle but I suspect even loose that the negative pressure behind the boolit will retain it for quite a distance. Taofledrmaus videos show that happening with shotgun slugs and wads.

Another option that is supposed to work but again I haven't tried this:

https://www.pufflon.com/newfront.html

I often use COW with graphite powder mixed in as a filler in my .303's and that does allow somewhat higher velocities with PB cast boolits without gas cutting. Using fillers like this is a controversial subject though.

Shotgun buffer is another good "granular" filler as well. I have a good article from militarysurplus.com on using shotgun buffer.

But I digress.

All in all, my opinion is that it is as much work to punch and glue card wads to a boolit base as it is to make and install gas checks and no cheaper. If you are buying gas checks well there is a cost. The wax wads would be easier and you could make wax sheets at home rather than buying them. Granular fillers are easy to use and virtually free. I would not use hot melt glue alone but that is just my opinion.

YMMV

Longbow

Couple of things, the comment to just use card since black powder would fill the case, well, the category is "smokeless," and when shooting cast over smokeless, the case has lots of empty space. That's why I want the paper to stick to the base of the boolit.

As for what sticky, I want quick curing and no deposits of any kind left in the barrel. There may be several readily available glues that meet those requirements. I only tried one.

Maybe some self-adhesive paper would work.

Old timers in the black powder era would cut card wads and use raw egg white to glue them. When dry the bullets withstand normal handling in the loading process, but upon firing it leaves no residue. Also used on cigarette rolling papers to make cartridges for cap& ball revolvers.

Outpost75, an old idea that sounds great. I like that.

I have never patched a grooved cast bullet, only my smooth sided swaged bullets, but I have never had a patch come off just applying them wet. Once it dries, its on.

Why have anything (attach) to a perfectly cast bullet ? I know I don't but if your pushing that fast they got these thingies called gas checks . And patching greasers ( dry) I Do, and yup they don't hitch hike (see 1st ) comment /Ed

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Edward

if your pushing that fast they got these thingies called gas checks . ....

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And why cast bullets,? They have those too...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jdsingleshot

And why cast bullets,? They have those too...

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For cast boolits going fast (THEY NEED) GC /just sayin Ed

I’ve used card wads and Dacron under soft pp’ed bullets to stop the powder kernels pounding on the lower half of the base of some rounds.

Been thinking about trying carnauba based car wax for paper patches to see what happens.

I patch using a short overhang which I glue between the wraps using ordinary school paper glue. This softens the paper and allows it to roll over the base edge. That seems to protect the base edge.

The idea is that the gasses can get under the base ring at the muzzle and blow it off. Recovered patch pieces seem to indicate that it does just that.

https://i.postimg.cc/rF3Bnr5z/MVC-781-F-2.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/pTB5S8Mj/DSCF3162.jpg

That's a fairly hard alloy hense the knurling to grip the patch. Velocity unknown but according to load data, it could be around 1700 fps, maybe more. Even with higher pressure loads where expansion leaves nothing more than the base itself intact, the base edge good.

These are dry wrapped by the way.

If the purpose is to keep cost and leading down, consider shake and bake powder coating. I have not gone over 1800 fps yet but so far the PC is undamaged. It is cheap and easy.

Yesterday finally got around to trying out wetting a patch with a bottle of extra cheap brand liquid carnauba car polish with a smooth sided .39 boolit. Very messy and the stuff probably causes car-cinomas in California. The carnauba impregnated paper shrank on while drying. This morning it withstood push through sizing just fine. I love tinkering and inventing new stuff. Maybe I'll call it a sabot.