I've got a 32Long Ballard barrel which I intend to reline with a 22lr liner. The liner is light push fit into the existing bore. Would this best be installed with epoxy, loctite or JB Weld?
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I've got a 32Long Ballard barrel which I intend to reline with a 22lr liner. The liner is light push fit into the existing bore. Would this best be installed with epoxy, loctite or JB Weld?
I have used all three binders over the years.
With a good clean fit , all three work good.
I have also sweat soldered the liner in place on a barrel that the liner was a bit of a loose fit.
For .22 liners , I prefer Red Locktite.
It is east to apply and gives you plenty of time to work with.
That in mind.
Do not use Quick dry 5 minute epoxies.
They are too hard to work with because you are on a tight time frame.
And also the quicker drying epoxies are not as hard , and are more heat sensitive.
But ihe JB Kwik Weld works good if you are doing pistol barrels.
My last liner I did was on a 1907 Leader .32 rf that I Relined to .22lr and made adapters to fit the chambers that too were JB Kwik welded into the cylinder.
Question: what is the preferred drill for preparing the barrel for a liner? Say a old pitted .22 barrel that needs a liner.
The drill bits I use to use , I got from Brownell's
Along with some liners.
I would say Locktite, but don’t forget that Locktited parts are removed by applying heat. Maybe a 22 won’t get that hot or maybe there is a heat restaurant Locktite available. JB weld will probably hold up best to heat. Don’t do it in the bright sun so you have enough time to work with it before it starts to set.
I would think the best way for a liner to be installed is with an interface fit, that needed the barrel heated and the liner chilled. Maybe that would require some reaming or lapping to get it to the correct diameter.
I use 680 or 620 Loctite. 620 is rated for 392 degrees Fahrenheit but I question that based on having to remove some 3/4" x 16 cap screws years ago that had been Locitite'd with liberal amounts of 680 since they were to never intended to be removed. The items had to be heated well above 900 degrees to get them out.
https://www.henkel-adhesives.com/us/...ctite_620.html
https://www.henkel-adhesives.com/us/...ctite_680.html
Shrink fitting is well beyond the means for most gunsmiths. With normal machining methods size and straightness issues will create stresses that will be imparted to the liner that may adversely affect accuracy. The Loctite/epoxy/ JB Weld method are completely stress free but Loctite 680 or 620 is easier to get 100% wetting of the barrel and liner than with epoxies.
https://rifleshooter.com/2018/04/22-...-installation/
Would like to hear John Taylor on this one.
The Redman liners are 5/16" OD. So a long 5/16" drill bit with a pilot ground on the end works. Then cut a relief on the larger diameter portion of the bit where the pilot area ends.Quote:
Originally Posted by sparky45
As for attaching the liner, in the past I've soldered them in. But it is a lot of work. The last couple I did was with 272 Locktite. Which is a high temperature red compound.
The 620 that M-Tecs posted about also looks good.
45_Colt
Thanks for the link to rifleshooter; that's a well done article.Quote:
Originally Posted by M-Tecs
If your boring out the the barrel for a liner you need a drill with a pilot unless you'r going from a 32 to a 5/16" liner. Brownells has a piloted drill for the 5/16" liner. Also pacific tool and gauge has piloted drills with interchangeable pilots. Most of the time I drill one size under and ream to the final size to get a good fit. I make my own piloted drills and only have one store bought piloted drill. Redman liners a button rifled and T.J.'s liner are hammer forged. T.J.'liners are a little more money but you only buy what you need, sold by the inch. I buy liners an inch longer than required because of the way I install them. I did a 32" barrel a few weeks back, can't do that with a Redman liner.Quote:
Originally Posted by sparky45
I've made several aluminum barrels for Ruger 10-22 clones by machining the barrel body out of 7075 aluminum, then installing a Redman liner using loctite 648 cylindrical adhesive. Loctite 648 is both heat and shock resistant. These barrels are very accurate and I've shot many thousands of rounds through them both at the range and while varmint hunting.
I certainly wouldnt worry about Loctite softening with heat.....unless it was full auto.....one advantage with solder ,is if something goes wrong,its melts and runs to completely free the liner......Once either epoxy or loctite has set,it never frees like solder......heat softens it ,but it still has considerable strength.
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...53#post4393453Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawlerbrook
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Taylor
When I line a barrel I use 262 Loctite, I also cut a chamfer on both ends of the barrel and after the Loctite cures I peen the liner ends into the chamfers to mechanically lock the liner in. I hot blued a .22 barrel the other day that I had installed a liner in and it showed no ill effects.
As others have mentioned,once Loctited ,the liner can be considered permanent and immovable......epoxy is the same ,once set ,it literally has to be burned out.......ive shot close fitting liners without any glue at all,and the liner doesnt take off,may move a tiny bit ,grips sufficiently to stay in place......With epoxy or Loctite its not a good idea to make a liner a hard push fit,but leave a bit more clearance,or maybe use a wick in Loctite,which is very fluid .
One of the reasons T.J.'s is making liner is, the owner was shooting a 9MM pistol with a liner and the liner went down range. Getting a good fit to a new liner is important and the crown can make or brake a good reline job. While I peen the end of the barrel and drive the liner through to be able to hide it, if I get it to tight it won't shoot good. Peening the chamber end won't hurt as the chamber reamer will clean things up. I have been using 262 loctite for over 20 years and have not had one come loose. I did install the wrong liner once and had to remove it. Using a piece of all thread in a tube threaded to the chamber end it took quite a bit of heat to get it out, enough that you didn't want to touch the barrel. The book says that locctite will let go at 425 degrees but I think it was closer to 600 before the liner moved.
Amazon had 262 loctite listed a little over $50 and I was in need so I ordered two. I didn't pay much attention to the size but they are 250 ML where I was getting 50ML for around $30 a few years back. Someone is going to end up with a lot of Loctite when I die. Most other companies are selling the 250 ML for over $200 and a few have it at $300
John, I believe the temperature rating for Loctite is the temperature that is maintains 100% of its rated strength then strength reduction is far more gradual than a soldered joint.
Having needed to remove a soldered in liner, there is a lot of heat involved. It was a Ruger with a 4-1/2" barrel (or abouts). I first put it in an oven at 400°F with a temperature probe in the bore. It took a good two hours to get the bore to that temperature.
Then using a propane torch to bring the solder up to melt, it took a lot of time. Was finally able to drive the liner out. Not fun, son-of-a-gun is hot to handle at that. And if not careful with the torch can burn the bluing off the barrel.
Ended up using Loctite to install the new liner.
As for Loctite and it's heat resistance. It is not what is thought. These graphs are from Henkel's data sheets. Note the relatively common 262 red loctite. At 150°C/302°F, the strength is reduce by half (50% of the nominal).
Attachment 301558
Then a better high temperature compound, 272 red. Note how it holds to over 75% strength at 150°C/302°F. And about 70% strength at 200°C/392°F.
Attachment 301559
Don't take this post as being negative, liners work. Just don't be fooled by simple specs and what it takes to get a good grip. One thing to recall, is that regular solder melts at about the same temperature as the high temperature loctites let go (272).
Also, look up the temperatures that epoxy starts to break down.
45_Colt
Not a liner,but I had a boat propshaft coupling that was Loctite red and some rust ,and it took near red heat and a 50 ton press to get it apart.