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Hello All:
I plan to load MagTech .410 brass cases with H110 using felt and paper wad/shot cards with a good tight sealing glue on top. The load data I can find doesn't list brass cases so I am trying to figure out if there an issue with using the published load data for plastic cases on these full brass cases?
Thanks
Rain
Rain: I would look for load data specific to the MagTech brass. Maybe a download or pamphlet from BPI. My only experience with the MagTech brass is only with 12ga. and that with black powder loads. I have how ever used 444 Marlin cases in my break barrel 410 with loads meant for plastic hulls.It is my observation that the Mag Tech brass is of much lighter construction that the 444 Marlin cases. Now, don't take this as a recommendation, just saying I've done it. If you load the 444s in this manner, you're on your own. Be aware when you substitute components in shotgun loads you are on dangerous ground. Welcome to the forum. Gp Edit: After looking over my BPI manual. All the loads listed for MagTech brass are black powder. Tread very carefully if you wander off into smokeless powder loads.
Unless you are cutting you own wads, you may have issues with the wads being too small diameter Loads for plastic cases should work in brass especially using fiber wads as they don't seal as well as plastic wads creating less pressure. When plastic cases first came out, it was recommended to reduce powder charges by %10 for plastic cases.
Welcome to the CB Forum, Rainman! Glad to have you join us. I believe gpidaho's advice is a very good place to start. Are you familiar with BPI (Ballistic Products Inc.)? They specialize in all things related to shotgun ammo, be it hulls, shot, wad, powder, etc. They import the Mag Tech brass shells, which haven't been too available for a while now, and publish hundreds of loads for components that they sell. They will also give advice on the phone. Your basic idea sounds good to me, but the question is how much of what is safe, and they're the folks who can probably tell you.
DG
Thank you for the welcome and the comments. This is my first attempt at 410 reloads, however, I have reloaded 12 ga and have purchased from BP but it has been a while. I will give them a call to see how they suggest I proceed. Look forward to exchanging thoughts and ideas with the folks here.
Best-
I helped my buddy load Magtech brass cases for his Taurus Judge. We used 296, an over the powder wad, with a plastic shotcup, and used sealant on the over the shot wad. We had a very difficult time getting sufficient pressure up for a complete burn. There was always unburned powder left in the cases and the barrel. The report seemed kind of weak also. As mentioned earlier, brass cases are intended for BP. I guess in the 12 ga, using a real fast smokeless powder, you might get away with it, but the .410, traditionally needs a slower powder, and resistance, to have the pressure rise enough for a clean burn. With brass cases with no crimp, you do not get it. If you wanted to be bold, and go outside the nine dots, you could try fast burning powders in your .410, to get the pressures up faster. Of course start low, and work up.
You might try contacting Ballistic Products for load data. They sometimes have crazy load recipes, that they might be willing to share.
Your mileage may vary, but in my experience the Magtech 2-1/2" brass .410 cases can be loaded with any standard pressure Group 1 powder charge recommended for the .44-40 Winchester with a 200-215-grain bullet. Patterning is better with light powder charges at subsonic velocity and 6 grains of Bullseye, WST or 452AA work fine with 1/2 oz. of shot, or 7 grains of 231 or HP38, or 8 grains of Unique, or 9 grains of Herco.
Thank you, I should have mentioned that I don't have a specific use in mind at this point, just absorb as much info as possible about the options. I have a Stevens single shot 3" and I plan to work up a load that will suffice for small game at close range.
GBertolet- thanks and I also have some 410 plastic wads that I am going to test fit to see if they will provide a good seal...at first glance the diameter appears a little smaller than the brass case.
Outpost75-thanks for the thoughts, a subsonic load would work for me and fortunately I have a wide variety of powders including most of those you mentioned. Can I assume that the 44-40 Winchester is loaded using paper and felt patches similar to shotguns shells?
Appreciate the thoughts
I've never used magtech brass cases but have used fire formed 303 brit cases in single shot 410 for about 40yrs. It's been my experience that H110/W296 won't burn well (not enough pressure) however I've had good results with Alliant2400 & 410 as well as Hodgdon Lil Gun using plastic case load data for 2.5" shells.
Just be sure to glue your overshot card in place.
Thank you RoyEllis....I may venture into re-forming 303 Brit at some point and would appreciate thoughts on why H110 may not fully burn in the 303 Brit? Is it possible to make a tighter seal ? I am curious since there is a lot of load data for H110 using traditional shells/primers, etc...so I just assumed it will be a good match for MagTech Brass and other reformed cases like 303 Brit...Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyEllis
What Outpost said.. I do it all the time. the load data will work that Outpost stated and is a wonderful starting place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Outpost75
Welcome to Cast Boolits..
The brass shells are thinner than plastic and the normal wads for the 410 are a loose fit and don't seal well. Also the lack of crimp allows the shot load to start moving with less pressure causing a poor burn with some of the normal powders used in the 410. I use 444 cases and an upside down 44cal gas check over powder and the filler wads as needed with an over shot wad glued in with silicone. Never used magtech brass and only assume they are thin as well. Test a 44 cal gc to see if the fit is good. If it is, it will seal gas very well. I would use 2400 as it lights easy and is a bit faster burn than H110/296. Blue dot may work well but I haven't tried it.
I use .45 caliber card over powder and over shot, and waxed fiber cushion wads from Buffalo Arms or BPI.Quote:
Originally Posted by rainman2012
Those brass cases are designed for black powder and card wads. Loaded appropriately they work great. The head is really thin and I don't feel comfortable using smokeless in them, and performance isn't as good as black so no point either.