shooting long range at deer and elk with paper patched boolits with 30-06

Not sure if this is the best place to ask this question but I need some expertise from y'all regarding my hunting issues. went hunting this past weekend with my 45-70 running a 396 gn cast soft lead boolit. its very accurate at the shooting range and i have no issues. where my problem comes in is im now hunting in some pretty wide open area that's hilly and sometimes winds gusting from 15 - 40 mph. its too difficult for me with the 45-70 to judge accurately the drop at the distances i need to work at which are 350+ yards with the average being 450 yards.

Im wanting to move to my H&R 30-06 single shot. I want something more flat shooting so would need to be throwing a chunk of lead probably 160-200 gns. i am quite familiar with paper patching so doing the process is no problem but wanting input on what i can expect on the target side at 350 - 550 yards, velocities, hardness and nose profile, drop and most importantly the terminal results. Im not wanting to tweak my 45-70 loads but just want to see what I can do with the 30-06 and move this direction. how fast can i push a paper patched boolit reasonably and still get accurate and terminal results.

Thanx for your input.

Crackerjack57

Watching this one, I would like to try this also.

My OPINION, based on my experiences. If you can get a 200 grain bullet, with a flat nose, up to about 2400 fps, it will have the ability to kill a deer or antelope at those distances, if you can hit it properly. To do this with a high potential for success, you are going to need a rifle/load that is near 1 MOA, a good range finder, and a Bullet Drop Compensating scope. And LOTS of practice. That will get you in there for elevation. However, with winds like you are describing, only a large amount of luck will get the correct windage. You will need near absolute zero wind, and then, some luck. The more practice you have under actual hunting conditions, the less luck you will need.

I have limited experience with paper patching and that is only in 45 caliber. I have zero experience paper patching a 30-06. I do have significant experience with long range shooting. The kill zone on medium to large Whitetail is 10" to 12" https://www.chuckhawks.com/kill_zone_game_animals.htm

While I am not a big Chuck Hawks fan the following advice is spot on:

One thing that those numbers show us is that ordinary 9" economy paper plates can be used to simulate the size of the target that the deer and pronghorn hunter needs to be able to hit. These make inexpensive targets. The distance at which you can keep all of your shots on a 9" paper plate with your hunting rifle from field positions is your personal maximum effective range under ideal conditions (an easily visible target and a calm shooter).
In the field your personal maximum effective range will usually be less because you will be shooting at a far less distinct target, you will probably be excited and you may also be winded from a long stalk or arduous hike. The vagaries of wind, uphill or downhill angles and altitude must also be considered in the field, as well as the trajectory of the cartridge and load that you are using. Never, in any case, shoot beyond the maximum point blank range of your cartridge.
Good luck and please hunt responsibly.

Grouping accuracy is one part of the equation. Next are wind drift and drop. One of the challenges is establishing what your actual BC so you can predict both wind drift and drop.

Even with 165 grain boattail high BC bullets most hunter have difficulties past 300 yards.

Some 30 cal paper patch info here: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...-patch-bullets

Bullet RPM can be an issue also at higher velocity. I didn't look it up but my guess is your H&R is a 10 twist. This thread deals with PC bullet but it does adress RPM issues. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...87#post4753587

Hopefully Larry Gibson will weigh in on this one.

One thing M Tecs left out was the Time if flight at extended ranges. This can be longer than a lot think it is. A step or moment right at your trigger pull can put the animal well out of the zone. Reading wind and distance accurately is important also. SO is light at longer ranges Light and mirage bends images.

some very good longrange hunting videos with both airguns and firearms can be found here, one of my favorite channels. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCth...sTDbd4n_aSSO7g

Yes, I will weigh in. For hunting/shooting deer and particularly elk at 350 - 550 yards I suggest, based on years of hunting and shooting both at short and long range (25 to 600 yards), I suggest the OP buy a box of Hornady 180 or 190 gr SPBTs and load them over top end load of H4350 or H4831SC. While I dearly love to shoot long range with HV cast bullets I know what the expected 15 - 45 mph winds can do to them at long range. Any cast bullet suitable for killing a deer or elk reliably and humanely is going to have a pretty poor BC. They just will not be reliably accurate under the hunting conditions the OP mentions. The '06, as mentioned, has a 10" twist which means the PPing must be perfect to maintain any surety of accuracy (1st shot must be good) at the mentioned ranges under the best of conditions let alone in that kind of wind. I just can't recommend the use of a cast bullet PP'd or not.

I've killed enough elk (over 20 on license) and observed many more killed under hunting conditions to use a cast bullet myself at those ranges. For elk I use a M70 Classic with 24" barrel pushing the 190 gr SPBT Hornady at 2700 fps over H4831SC and have a self imposed max range of 500 yards with it (max distance where the bullet will reliably expand given a heart/lung shot). I will only take a shot like that under the best of conditions and only if I can't get closer. For longer range mule deer country I favor the 180 gr Hornady SPBT over H or IMR 4350 for 2800 fps out of that rifle. That 180 gr SPBT will expend on deer out to 600 yards. The rifle is capable of 10 shot moa accuracy with either load. It wears a Zeiss scope with repeatable elevation adjustments and I have verified the range settings 200 to 600 yards in 50 yard increments via actual shooting at those ranges. I use a range finder also and spend considerable time shooting from varied field positions in the field at various ranges before season. Even then, as mentioned, I won't take a long range shot unless I am sure of it and can't get any closer.

My apologies if I disappoint by not expounding the virtues of cast bullets on big game at long range but I just don't see it under the conditions the OP mentions. Yes I have killed PDs out to 500 yards with cast bullets but that's a lot different than Deer/elk. For what the OP will probably spend hunting the $30 or so dollars a Box of Hornady SPBTs will cost are well worth it.....to me they would be anyways......:drinks:

Agree with Larry. Cast from 308 at distance has a terrible drop. And you may need 2 shots!

Getting a 215 grain cast, patched bullet to 2400 fps in an -06 is no problem and you can get good accuracy, at least sufficient to kill a deer out to 300. You have no business pushing it beyond that. Personally, if you can't get within 200 yards of a deer, you need to stay home.

I live on the western edge of the North Dakota Badlands; surely your terrain is no more open than ours here. The longest shot I have ever made on a deer was a measured 185 yards and that was on my rifle range in Kentucky. Here, my shots are from 50 to 150 yards, even for antelope.

Yep... J words with a rifle that shoots MOA or better.

35 inches of differences for a gusting wind at 400 yards makes a lot of error.
Just saying

Better bone up on lame excuses for winging something at best.

Maybe get a couple of 30 shot mags and blaze away walking the shot in.
At least a gut shot animal will die eventually.
Being in the open getting a few random body shots ought to slow or tether it for you.



Then just blame useless lead bullets while being a big man in the pub to your mates.:kidding:

Sorry for that.
Just because I-would have to litter the hillside with wind flags.
And have a rangefinder and a ballistics app tuned for my load I’d still be guessing the wind deflection.

I know there are lots of people With great talents but if I asked me benchrest champion fella I know ..... I doubt he would say he could land one right on the spot without a few wind flags to dope the wind.
And I recon he’s pretty damn good at what he does.

Long range shots at game are very iffy, Steel can be hunted year round!

Thanx for the input fellas! the mulie was taken this morning in more reasonable conditions. 250 yards and 5 MPH wind. I hear all of what you all are saying and I appreciate your input. I hear what larry is saying about just buying a box of J bullets for some of the times we cant get in closer then 350 yards and in the places i have permission to hunt sometimes its tough to close that gap. and yes. i have spent 2 hours belly crawling 300 yards to get a 210 yard shot but sometimes it just cant reasonably be done.

some of you that are paper patching for the 30-06, in boolit weights of 150-210 gn....... what might your speeds be, weight of boolit, ballistic coefficient and most importantly group size at say 300 yards?? Ive done most of my hunting with a cast boolet, ive had fantastic results and notably with my hunting buddies better terminal performance then their jacketed. I just like how lead preforms once it hits an animal. what might my possibilities be with paper patched at 300 yards??

I need all the advantage I can use. I hunt with jacketed bullets.

I paper patch my 311284's and cover the base so I do not add the gas check and I shoot them in my Garands. I also add PSB's to fill the case to the base of the boolit and my usual velocity is 1850 or so FPS. Utilizing the adjustable gas valve on the M1's I can find the sweet spot where I can get full functions and not beat the rifles to death.

I regularly shoot at 300 and 400 yd steel targets and my best results are 9 out of 10 at 300 yds and about 3-4 out of 10 at 400 yds. The targets are 24" tall and 18" wide at the base and only 8" wide at the top.

I have not had much success at higher velocities than 1850 FPS as the accuracy drops as the velocity increases. The fastest velocity I have achieved was almost 2400 FPS but they had flattened primers and measured case expansion was too high for my safety concerns so I tossed the brass.

I agree with Larry Gibson as for your needs a j-word bullet would do better for you, so spring for the bucks to get where you want to be.

I've got some excellent bolt action rifles with scopes. On a windless summer day off a rest they are all capable of hitting a groundhog in the head at 300yds. Shooting 350-450yds in OPs situation with anything is not a reasonable responsible shot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Drm50

I've got some excellent bolt action rifles with scopes. On a windless summer day off a rest they are all capable of hitting a groundhog in the head at 300yds. Shooting 350-450yds in OPs situation with anything is not a reasonable responsible shot.

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With paper patched lead bullets?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by M-Tecs

With paper patched lead bullets?

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Sorry, forgot to mention I use jackets on all game hunting, except in old original rifles. When I hunt with them it's usually in WVa and the shoots are not much over 100yds. These are loaded to BP duplication, not hot.

Good advice given here. I grew up hunting the west, and most hunters were using 06, 270, 7mm or 8mm. No one was trying shots over 200 yds since most were using open sites. Even with the early scopes anything over that was a long poke. Scopes have gotten better. Bullets are better and most of the newer guns will group better. Based on my experience anyway. I shoot a lot of cast boolits but if I am hunting deer and/or elk I will always go a jacketed projectile. Most hunters will advise you to get closer or not take the shot. OH that 7mm mentioned was a 7 Mauser not the 7 Mag. Guns have have gotten better but some of us still shoot the old ones for our own amazement but not long distance on live game.