Miroku/Winchester Hiwall

I have been offered a Miroku/Winchester Hiwall in 45/70 which is the 125th Anniversary Model new and unfired in original box. Darn if I can find any barrel specifications, rifling, twist etc..

Already have a Pedersoli Sharps that is very accurate with long range aperature sights and with the PGT 545gn boolit but I would like to mount a Lyman "All American" 20X scope on this Hiwall and run some tests with the much improved sighting equipment.

Found a youtube vidio that did not give this rifle a good report. Any one care to comment good/bad on this particular model?

https://i.imgur.com/E7vhjh2l.jpg

winchesters web site says it's a 1-20 twist, so that would limit your bullet length to 1.35.So as a long range rifle it may or may not work well. Be fine for a hunting/plinking/midrange sillhoutte rifle.
The Miroku built rifles I have are all fine shooters.
Interesting some of the stuff a person sees on Youtube, but have to keep in mind it's one persons attempt at making a video about something..

I have the exact same gun. The chamber/leade is set to SAAMI spec’s, so it’s short. I took the gun to Turnbull Restorations right after I got it to have the chamber lengthened because several bullets simply would not chamber. Turnbull reamed it out to their spec’s and that involved lengthening it about .250”. It will now chamber any bullet and the accuracy of the gun is very, very good. I don’t use it for extremely long range shooting, but it will shoot 1moa five shot groups at 100 yards with monotonous regularity. It’s not very fussy to load for either. I can use a Rem 405g JSP and many different powders to shoot those groups. I shot several lead bullets that shot about as well, but I basically shoot my cast/lead bullets out of a couple of handguns I hunt with.
Attachment 314334

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Originally Posted by Don McDowell

winchesters web site says it's a 1-20 twist, so that would limit your bullet length to 1.35.So as a long range rifle it may or may not work well. Be fine for a hunting/plinking/midrange sillhoutte rifle.
The Miroku built rifles I have are all fine shooters.
Interesting some of the stuff a person sees on Youtube, but have to keep in mind it's one persons attempt at making a video about something..

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Don
A couple twisty questions if you dont mind
1) shooting the CBE 535 grain (their Pedersoli Boolit) - its 1.435 oal --is 18" twist enough ? if no where (distance) would you expect it to go unstable ?

2) that good ole LEE 500 3R ---I have shot some nice groups with that at 100 yards - in a 20" twist - it measures 1.405 out of my mold - dead calm it seems ok but with a bit of wind goes wonky about 450 yards out - from previous discussions here this appears more than a twist issue? is that boolit just wrong shape - too much of its weight at the rear end ?

Joe that 1.43 is just about the limit on an 18 twist. Altho if a good crosswind or twitchy tail wind comes around it can give you some grief beyond 600.
For the most part my preference is to keep it to 1.42 in 18 twist.
But it might also be prudent to point out the original postel bullet was introduced back in 1881 to make the trapdoor with it's 20 inch twist competitive in the 1000 yard matches of the day. They decided the slight bevel base helped it stay stable in the wind. I know the copy of the original postel made from bullets cast from an original mold listed in Buffalo Arms does shoot well in the 45-70. Haven't done much testing in the 45-90 but so far the one 45-90 I've shot it in really don't like it..

I recently acquired a nice Miroku highwall in caliber .38-55. It's teaching me which boolits and powders it prefers. I have several Winchester highwalls (.32 Ideal, .38-56, and .32-40) so I was surprised at different action (and other) features added to this old classic design. The rifle is beautifully made and I can't find anything about it that I would change. Here's one of the first 5-shot 100 yd. groups it yielded a few weeks ago:


Attachment 314375

Mine is not the anniversary model, but otherwise the same. It likes the Lyman 457483 at about 1600 ft/sec that drops at 395 g from my mold.

BAW,

If you stop by the ASSRA website and get in touch with TexasMac, you can get the full story. He’s the acknowledged expert on the Japanese high walls, having researched them sufficiently to write the definitive book on them.

Froggie

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Originally Posted by Green Frog

BAW,

If you stop by the ASSRA website and get in touch with TexasMac, you can get the full story. He’s the acknowledged expert on the Japanese high walls, having researched them sufficiently to write the definitive book on them.

Froggie

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He posts on here occasionally. He knows his stuff.

Among 3 Miroku/Winchester/Browning 45-70's I have found the barrels very uniform from one rifle to another. Very short throats as already mentioned. All 3 slug at .457-.4575 and have 1/20 twist. Two are 1886 Brownings, rifle and carbine, the third an 1885 sporter. I suspect their specs for barrels are the same for the 1886 and 1885. The barrels are also very smooth internally. My 1886 rifle has been shot the most lately and has almost 200 rounds of cast boolits through it since the last cleaning and no leading. Think seasoning like a .22, don't mess with it when it is shooting good. It is also very accurate, even with 525 grain boolits which measure 1.335" long. I recently fired a 5 shot group of 3.5" at 300 yards with the 525 loaded over 27 grains of 5744. Also shot some Lyman 457193's (415 grains) over 24 grains of 2400 that produced a 1.6" group at 200 yards. And no I cannot duplicate that performance on demand but the rifles are capable.

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Originally Posted by Sgt H

Among 3 Miroku/Winchester/Browning 45-70's I have found the barrels very uniform from one rifle to another. Very short throats as already mentioned. All 3 slug at .457-.4575 and have 1/20 twist. Two are 1886 Brownings, rifle and carbine, the third an 1885 sporter. I suspect their specs for barrels are the same for the 1886 and 1885. The barrels are also very smooth internally. My 1886 rifle has been shot the most lately and has almost 200 rounds of cast boolits through it since the last cleaning and no leading. Think seasoning like a .22, don't mess with it when it is shooting good. It is also very accurate, even with 525 grain boolits which measure 1.335" long. I recently fired a 5 shot group of 3.5" at 300 yards with the 525 loaded over 27 grains of 5744. Also shot some Lyman 457193's (415 grains) over 24 grains of 2400 that produced a 1.6" group at 200 yards. And no I cannot duplicate that performance on demand but the rifles are capable.

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Sgt. H, I found the same results when I slugged both my 1885 and 1886 Miroku guns….perfect replication in barrel spec’s. Same with barrel internal finish…about as good as it can get. I’m in my seventies and I’ve owned more guns than I can remember. I’ve not seen any mass produced brand with better fit and finish than Miroku. I worked for over forty years as a quality manager in big industry and I don’t recall any company getting it any better in that regard. Typical Japanese quality, superb considering it’s basically mass produced and not “one-at-a-time”.

my japchester 1885 is a davidsons exclusive limited series short hunter in 45-70 with 22" barrel, its been a ex shooter with just about all loads tried in it.