I watched a video of the recreation of an original BP and paper patched boolit. There was a grease cookie added just as the original load had. I was wondering if any of that lube makes it’s way past the paper patch.
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I watched a video of the recreation of an original BP and paper patched boolit. There was a grease cookie added just as the original load had. I was wondering if any of that lube makes it’s way past the paper patch.
Not if loaded correctly, as there should be one or even two snug wads over the cookie before the bullet is seated. I use a waxpaper wad both under the cookie and over the cookie, and the historical cartridges I've disassembled show similar wad use. Sometimes I use milk carton wads instead of the wax paper. I have on occasion had reason to pull bullets in my own cartridges, some several years old, and have not detected any lube contamination of the patches.
I should have added this before in case someone wants more details. The cartridge loading starts at 4 minutes if you want to jump ahead. So what is the grease cookie doing? Is it just to keep the fouling soft? I wonder if it was used in other cartridges as well.
https://youtu.be/G3s9if7ocPI
Grease cookies leave a coating of oil in the bore to keep the fouling soft, allowing multiple shots. They were very common in hunting and military ammunition.
From the many patches I have recovered none have even shown grease on the base so it dosnt appear to get past the wads. They are confetti on the outer wrap.The inner is clean ( very lightly discolored) dry, No burns or tears. The base fold under is unfolded and well creased, but no signs of grease or bullet lube
In my 34" barrels I run 1/8" cookie of spg or emmerts, in 3-5 rounds there is a pronounced lube star on the muzzle. But the patches come off at the muzzle and float down. What I believe is that he grease cookie vaporizes on firing lightly coating the pore to do several things 1) keep fouling soft and manageable. 2) lubricate the next shot 3) Maintain the consistent bore condition.
I also see the above effect when cleaning between strings. A snug patch jag ran thru the bore the 1st is black and cruddy caked with a greasy fouling the next isnt near as dirty and the 3 rd will have gray streaks. A shot of windex after these will release some more but not much.
The lube cookie will also help seal the bore before the bullet completes it's bump up. Using a lube cookie is a fine way to get started with PP as it's very forgiving. I've never had gas cutting problems when using one even with slightly undersized bullets. I've found that they can shoot quite well, but I've had a better results without one for target loads.
Chris.
Hunting only, definitely not for fine target work.
Done both btw.
Kenny Wasserburger
Only use them in military rifle, where cleaning between shots isn't allowed, blowtubing only. Match rifles, no cookies.
I agree with Kenny and Martinibelgian.
I experimented with grease wads recently in two very accurate rifles.
Group size doubled in one and went completely south in the other.
JKR
How many shots are you taking with a grease cookie before you have to wipe the barrel???
Can anyone who has done substantive testing comparing veg wads, LDPE wads, and grease cookies, wiping between each shot for all of them, share the methodology and results of their tests? It would seem that there shouldn’t be much difference if they all protect the bullet base equally as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by mongo40
mongo40
One of the last times that I was out, I shot two 17 shot strings back to back. Wiping between strings. I had been going back and forth between the chicken swinger and the pig swinger. On the second string I missed the pig to the left but the elevation was good on the 14th shot. I was pretty sure that it was me so I added .12” to the vernier and took a poke at the turkey swinger. That one connected but the next one went just under the breast. For the 17th shot I held a little more front sight into the turkey and connected. With a good over powder wad, and a good lube wad formulation, with a properly designed bullet it’s possible to fire quite a few rounds with reasonable accuracy.
I'm not going to spend the time to type up a big reply, but I spent a lot of time testing various wad combinations including lube cookies. Much of it was shot over a chronograph. I have had better luck than some with lube cookies, and even once won a gong match out to 800m with them. I've also had quite good accuracy on paper at 200m.Quote:
Originally Posted by ragnar
The main problem I've found is that the lube cookie gives less consistent muzzle velocities than an LDPE wad. This causes excessive vertical at long range.
In the end the only wad combinations I've found to work well at long range are:
1) a single 0.060" LDPE, sometimes in combination with a 0.030" veg wad.
2) two 0.060" LDPE
3) Kenny Wasserburger's wad stack that he uses in the .45-110's. This one doesn't work for me if I use it in a .45-70 as I think it works best with a lot of powder behind it, but works great in .45-90, and bigger. It'll definitely seal the bore and will give great accuracy.
Any of those 3 will give more consistent muzzle velocities than a lube cookie in my tests.
Chris.
Thanks Chris, that’s very helpful, especially your comment on MV consistency leading to the vertical issue. There are so many variables!Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunlaker
Never a grease cookie, always an LDPE .060 wad.
Is it fair to lube and clean with bore butter after each shot. Has given me good groups with an unexpected bullet. I won’t go into all the particulars unless you want me to. Would you cry foul? It sure make my fouling soft. And I can’t seem to get a reaction out of my lube cookie with paper patch like that. I want to try something else for lube. My lube maybe barely softens my fouling. It seems like it would take a lot of lube to liquify it like my other. Powder burn too dry. Bore butter too soft. Going to try spg clone.Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankJD
I find a water wet bore wiper followed by a dry patch works best between shots for fouling control. But two patches with Ballistol and then a dry patch works almost as well. I only load and shoot PPBs.
What Frank JD said is well known by comp shooters ,consistent bore condition is a must for accuracy and what you are using gets you inconsistent bore condition hence the target shows it /Ed
Here is what a lube wad can do. That target was shot with my 25# Shiloh that has a 1.3" X 35" long round untapped in the .44-100/2.6" straight shell when I formed these .44 cases from .45 basic brass to fit the chamber. This target I had setup at 200 yards and I just loaded and fired with out ever wiping the bore or using a blow tube, just an occasional blow in the breach or down the muzzle with my hand cupped over the muzzle. There are only a couple shots that went out of the 4" hole you see and 100 rounds fired.
But I load differently when shooting "dirty" to be able to do it.
I shoot "dirty" often just for fun at the range and I take a small caliber with me with loads that have a lube wad for someone that would like to shoot a BPCR and it's mostly the young lads or a Lady, so I load them so they can load and shoot without fouling control and you should see the big smile on their face when that bowling pin fragments into splinters after they hit it a few times at 200 yards. :D
When you shoot dirty you need to have a very soft lube so it stays in the bore and not finding a hard lube wad 20-25 yards in front of the muzzle that looks like it's unused except for the land cuts on it's side. Think soft butter that has been out the fridge for an hour or so, or a rich mix of Vaseline and wax soft enough that you can poke your finger through a block of it. Yup I said Vaseline Petroleum Jelly. :D
This takes a special wad stack that will hold the soft lube from migrating down into the powder.
Attachment 300682
Other lube is sure not going to melt…