1909 Argentine with a .315 groove diameter

The first rifle I ever bought was a 1909 Argentine Mauser (DWM) when I was young. The long rifle. I remember like it was yesterday. I got a Lee Loader for $9.99 and a carboard can of H-4895 with the plug stopper and a box of Hornady .312 Spire points and 2 boxes of Norma brass. Seems like all this was well under a hundred dollars. I was in shooter heaven and the rifle shot well for me. I wish I would have kept it. Life was not complicated.

Fast forward 45 years and I was at a gun show a month ago and found another one with a surprisingly good bore. The guy had a $450 price tag on it but the No.1 Mk III Enfield (FTR) he had next to it was a better deal at $350. He said I could have the 09 Mauser at the same price. I felt giddy like a 20 year old again.

Brung them home and proceeded to the range the next day. The 7.65 shoots a not so nice 4 inch group at 25 yards with Hornady/Graf 7.65 ARG ammo. With my handloads about the same. At 50 yards a 8 inch group with the bullet holes oval looking.

I slugged the Mauser today. .305 bore and .315 groove measured with a Starrett electronic micrometer. Should I recheck with a dial caliper? It looks like I'm going to need a mold with that will drop out a .316 bullet. Any suggestions on what to try to find?

In the meantime I cleaned up the crown and loaded some Hornady .312 174 gr. RN over 40gr of H-4895 and seated them a little closer to the rifling and will give those a try.
Thank you,,,,,,,,,,,,,Bob

NOE clone of #314299, but order in .316" diameter, load 30 grains of 4064, RL15 or Varget as full charge load.

Outpost 75's suggestion might be the best way to go if you're willing to wait for awhile...When I checked last Friday, NOE was posting a 10-week delivery time.

If it were me, though, I'd try to find a Lee 312-185-1R. That's a 185 grainer originally for the .303 Brit and they usually drop .313-.314. From there, you could 'beagle' it to drop even larger or, maybe, try powder coating. I went this route for a 'Winter War' M-N 91/30 with a .314 groove dia. and 50-yard buckshot patterns became 'minute of 1/2 gallon milk-jug" at 100 yds. Another possibility might be the Lee 312-155-2R, originally for the 7.62x39s, "beagled" or powder-coated. This is what I shoot in an '09 Argie carbine with a slightly dark bore. The downside of this is that both these molds are 'out-of-stock' at the Lee website and all the major outlets but you could get lucky and someone on the forum just might have an extra laying around.

Re: run 'beagling' through the search engine and you'll find a number of threads on enlarging molds.

Bill

In my 1891 Argentine I shoot 25 grains of h4895 and the noe .316299 sized at .316. Drops from the mould at .318 which I like for my Enfield rifles. It is very accurate with group's in the 1.5"-2" range at 100 yards.
Mine has a large throat. I tried all the dot powders and unique as well as others and h4895 is what it prefers.

I guess I'll wait till NOE starts making the .316299 again. All they say is "Out of Stock". I didn't see a way of backordering the mold.

Thanks for the starting point guys.

The 1x10 twist will support the .316299 easily. Last I checked Grafs was out of 7.65x43mm PPU brass. Remington 8mm mauser should form into some nice argy cases. If you cannot find RP 8mm brass, keep going with Winchester or Federal.I started out with 8mm Israeli once fired brass. Sized them down in a form and trim die, cutoff the excess case neck and neck reamed then f/l sized some minor trimming. Frank

Have you tried paper patching just to get to shooting?

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Originally Posted by gumbo333

Have you tried paper patching just to get to shooting?

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No I have not tried paper patching............I found a Lee C312-185-1R on Ebay today. I thought I would beagle it up just a tad. Or attempt to lap one cavity. I also bought some 30 caliber gas checks and a .316 size die from Buffalo Arms. I will be using Rotometal's No. 2 alloy when I get all this together. Plus I need to make a chamber cast for the record. Does paper patching to increase diameter work okay? I assume the patch is rolled on the bullet wet?

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Originally Posted by Leatherbark

No I have not tried paper patching............I found a Lee C312-185-1R on Ebay today. I thought I would beagle it up just a tad. Or attempt to lap one cavity. I also bought some 30 caliber gas checks and a .316 size die from Buffalo Arms.

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Alternately, once you get dimensions for throat/ball seate/lands/grooves, you can go shopping at Accurate and have him make you a mould that drops bullets to your specifications with the alloy you intend to use. I had this two different design combo made to my specifications and it was well worth the very, very reasonable price he charges.

Attachment 281005

That NOE 316299 is what I use in my 1891 sized to .315. The two loads it likes is 39 grains of IMR4350 or 33 grains of W748.

I have an old mold that works in a lot of different calibers. Its a "fat" Lyman 311413. It drops from the mold at .315. I size at .314 and it shoots great at 1500-1700 fps out of my .303, 7.65 Argentine and a host of fat thirty calibers. I stoke my .30's with 20-22 grs. of reloader 7 and ignite with Remington 9 1/2s; great combination and very accurate...................................

Today I had success with the Lee .312 185 grain bullet using Lyman #2 alloy and powder coating twice with Eastwood dark green. The bullets drop out at .312. It took 2 powder coats to get the bullets to .316. I found a .316 sizing die to assure roundness anyway and used a gas-check. I used 2 different loads. 16 gr. of 2400 and 24 gr. of 5744. The 2400 load was more accurate but I could tell much slower than the 5744 load. 2400 shot under 3 shots in an inch at 25 yards and 4 shots under 2 inches at 50 yards and the 5744 shot 4 shots right at 2 inches at 50. I only had 3 rounds of the 2400 load left to shoot at 100 and the sun was glaring off of the sights but it still grouped the threes shots into 4 inches. What is neat is that with this bullet the rifle shoots to the point of aim at 25 and 50 yards using the lowest sight setting (300m). Just put the tip of the barley corn front sight in the middle of the black and all the shots are in the black just a little to the right.

One last thing. I couldn't perceive any leading of the bore. I ran 5 Kroil soaked patches through the bore. Although nasty looking at first the last one was fairly clean. This is my first successful attempt a powder coating. My first attempt several years ago with Harbor Freight black was not very good. This Eastwood worked perfectly shaking the bullets in a No.5 plastic paint tub.

Bob

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Leatherbark

The first rifle I ever bought was a 1909 Argentine Mauser (DWM) when I was young. The long rifle. I remember like it was yesterday. I got a Lee Loader for $9.99 and a carboard can of H-4895 with the plug stopper and a box of Hornady .312 Spire points and 2 boxes of Norma brass. Seems like all this was well under a hundred dollars. I was in shooter heaven and the rifle shot well for me. I wish I would have kept it. Life was not complicated.

Fast forward 45 years and I was at a gun show a month ago and found another one with a surprisingly good bore. The guy had a $450 price tag on it but the No.1 Mk III Enfield (FTR) he had next to it was a better deal at $350. He said I could have the 09 Mauser at the same price. I felt giddy like a 20 year old again.

Brung them home and proceeded to the range the next day. The 7.65 shoots a not so nice 4 inch group at 25 yards with Hornady/Graf 7.65 ARG ammo. With my handloads about the same. At 50 yards a 8 inch group with the bullet holes oval looking.

I slugged the Mauser today. .305 bore and .315 groove measured with a Starrett electronic micrometer. Should I recheck with a dial caliper? It looks like I'm going to need a mold with that will drop out a .316 bullet. Any suggestions on what to try to find?

In the meantime I cleaned up the crown and loaded some Hornady .312 174 gr. RN over 40gr of H-4895 and seated them a little closer to the rifling and will give those a try.
Thank you,,,,,,,,,,,,,Bob

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Leatherbark,

My quick and easy check on bullet suitability IS to try a bullet (J or Lead) nose first down the muzzle by thumb pressure. IF it goes in past the mid point, it will NOT shoot well.

Adam

The Hornady "J" bullets both the .312 150 and 174 grainers both did. The 174 a bit less. These Lee 185 (actually 182 after sizing) the front portion is guided by the bore friction fits the bore when inserted at the muzzle and it stops at the driving bands. This bullet fits this worn out barrel much better.

Bob