22WCF question

I am looking at a old 1885 low wall in 22WCF and found a chart that shows the dimension of this old cartridge compared to Remington and Winchester 22 Hornet dimensions. It shows the 22WCF bullet diameter as .226. The rifle I'm looking at says it has an excellent bore and I want it for a shooter. I'm a little concerned about the larger bore. I assure the rifling twist is slower than todays 22 Hornet offerings.

My question is, does anyone have knowledge or experience with the old WCF chambering? I would be interesting to hear your experience. Thanks

wcp

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Originally Posted by wcp4570

I am looking at a old 1885 low wall in 22WCF and found a chart that shows the dimension of this old cartridge compared to Remington and Winchester 22 Hornet dimensions. It shows the 22WCF bullet diameter as .226. The rifle I'm looking at says it has an excellent bore and I want it for a shooter. I'm a little concerned about the larger bore. I assure the rifling twist is slower than todays 22 Hornet offerings.

My question is, does anyone have knowledge or experience with the old WCF chambering? I would be interesting to hear your experience. Thanks

wcp

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I own a Ballard with 3 Pope barrels, and one is .22WCF. My barrel isn't a good example being a custom Pope done around 1900 I'd guess. But it does have a fairly large groove of around .225" and a twist rate of 1:14". I had a mold built for it that's 50 grs. by Brooks, and it shoots extremely well with the .226" bullet.
If the Winchester is typical I've heard of some using bullets as large as .228", so you're going to have to get a mold and cast for it. Nobody sells bullets large enough for most .22WCF bores.

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Originally Posted by marlinman93

I own a Ballard with 3 Pope barrels, and one is .22WCF. My barrel isn't a good example being a custom Pope done around 1900 I'd guess. But it does have a fairly large groove of around .225" and a twist rate of 1:14". I had a mold built for it that's 50 grs. by Brooks, and it shoots extremely well with the .226" bullet.
If the Winchester is typical I've heard of some using bullets as large as .228", so you're going to have to get a mold and cast for it. Nobody sells bullets large enough for most .22WCF bores.

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That is what I expected to hear. The seller says based on the S/N it should have been made around 1902. I have 4 different 22 molds but I don't think any will cast that large. I guess a custom mold will just add a little more expense to be able to shoot a little piece of history. Thanks for the input.

wcp

You could maybe paper patch one of your current bullets?

Tim

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Originally Posted by wcp4570

That is what I expected to hear. The seller says based on the S/N it should have been made around 1902. I have 4 different 22 molds but I don't think any will cast that large. I guess a custom mold will just add a little more expense to be able to shoot a little piece of history. Thanks for the input.

wcp

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If you have a lathe, or a friend with a lathe, I'd consider opening up the base band on one of the existing molds you have now. I've had this done on two molds I cast with and it works very well, and fits the rifling great. Only need the base band done to seal the bore so forward bands don't need to be larger.
I have a Saeco 740 opened up from .322" to .329" on the base band for my Hepburn Match B with large groove diameter.

Mine isn't exactly "old;" I relined a Stevens 44 with a 0.226" liner (originally for the Model 90s made in .22WRF, IIRC) and chambered it with a .22WCF reamer I got at a fire sale when the Hartford Reamer Company went out of business.

I'm an accumulator of old moulds anyway, and find that a lot of old Ideal .22 moulds, even though they have "225" as the first three numbers in their designation, are often quite oversized, and fit the barrel just fine. I run them through an old Ideal #1 die marked "228", which lubes and attaches the gas check without reducing the diameter. I currently load with an alleged Ideal 225107, which has to be 0.227" as cast, with range scrap alloy. Back then, as one gun writer complained, "Mould cherries [were] made to the maximum dimensions that could be gotten away with, and ground and sharpened as production continued to the irreducible minimum."

You can also haunt the Internet gun sites for a Winchester .22WCF mould, which show up occasionally. Or an Ideal #4 tool with the 225353 mould on the end. These moulds cast at the proper diameter, and the castings shoot pretty well.

Failing that, you could take a current .22 mould and lap it out a few thousandths, or order a custom diameter from Accurate.

I find I shoot my cobbled-together .22 WCF more than I do my Hornets any more, although I load the WCFs and Hornets with the same dies.

I have a Winchester Model 1890 chambered in 22 WRF. My grandfather bought it new in a hardware store in 1895. It is a pretty accurate rifle. I have both Remington and Winchester ammunition for it.

The 1885 I was looking at was in the Cabela's Gun Library in Ohio and I went ahead and bought it and its being sent to the Cabela's store near me. I don't think I could paper patch a 22 caliber boolit so I will have to have a mold made or do as Bent Ramrod suggests and try and find an older mold and hope it casts large enough boolit. I'm also an accumulator of molds so searching for an old mold is right down my alley. Can't wait to get my hands on my new prize. Thanks to everyone that commented and made suggestions.

wcp

I too have utilized old Lyman/Ideal moulds which often drop oversize bullets. My .22WCF has a somewhat tight throat of a fat .225". An old Ideal PB mould, #225230 drops a 1/20 alloy bullet at .226 and 45 grains. I run it through a lubrisizer die that barely trues up its roundness and lubes with Javelina lube. Accuracy is all I could hope for at a little under an inch at 50yds. with 2.5gr. Bullseye. Twist is 1-16".

The same gun, and a cute little German kiplauf in 5.6x35R which has identical throat/bore dimensions (but with a faster gain twist ending in 1-9" near as I can tell), also do well with a Lee 52gr. Bator GC bullet sized to .225" (actual as-cast diameter, the sizer employed mainly for GC seating) and pushed with 6.0gr. 2400. That load is a fair bit more accurate and snappy than the 225230 PB load and carries well on out to 100yards and has been my go-to squirrel load for years.

A little update on this old 22wcf rifle. I picked the rifle up at my local Cabela's store and the exterior was as expected for the age of the rifle. The person I bought the rifle from told me he was going to remove the rear sight before shipping because it was loose. Got the rifle home and found out the mount screw was stripped and the dovetail part on the barrel had a broken wing on it. So to fix this little problem I milled a new dovetail mount for the barrel. I replaced the screw with a Weaver scope ring screw and reinstalled the original sight blade back on the barrel. The sight was a little different than I've seen before, simple but it works. I've shot the rifle in the back yard at a can with loads I already had loaded with the 225415 and have no problem hitting a can at close range. Next I will see what I can do to get the correct size bullet for the bore and put it on paper. A few pictures of the sight and the repair.
Attachment 326096
Sight parts, the dovetail mount had the right side broken.
Attachment 326097
Newly milled and cold blue mount installed.
Attachment 326098
Sight installed.

wcp