My Emmerts Lube is failing in a hot barrel.

I made some Emmerts lube about 3 years ago and have been using it as my only bullet lube since. I use it with both Black Powder O.E. and Smokeless CFE-Pistol in 45 Colt cartridges.
I believe I have been experiencing lube purge flyers after my initial 5 shots.
The first 5 shots my Lyman 452664 bullets make a nice tight group, bullet holes touching at 50 yds. With smokeless by shot #7 the 24” barrel is quite warmed up from breach to muzzle and the shots won’t hold in a tight any more the groups group spreads 6”. The lube purged shots seem to land the furthest out from the POA blowing the group to an inflated 6”.

With Black Powder O.E. 35 grs 2 fg the group holds tighter then throw a flyer then back to tight grouping again until the barrel pukes the next flyer.

I’m think my Emmerts needs an ingredient added to raise its operating temperature or to stiffen it up for hot weather and hot barrel usage.

I have Carnauba wax flakes.
I thought about adding candle wax the type that has stearic acid.
Or maybe Vybar 103 to help hold the oil or raise the melting temperature for summer time use.

I remember in August the rifle barrel laying in the hot sun was too hot to touch for 1 second and I hadn’t fired my first shot yet.

Greenjoytj:
Several years ago, for a period of about 15 years, I competed regularly in BPCR Silhouette competition. My most used caliber was 40/65. I used Goex, then later changed to Swiss. We also had side matches with BPC revolver matches. I was competitive with both rifle and pistol (Ruger Blackhawk and Ruger Bisley BH .45 Colt.

I started shooting with the original Emmerts formula (50% pure natural beeswax, 40% Crisco, and 10% canola oil. This formula worked quite well but would deteriorate when lubed bullets were properly stored longer than a single season. I did a little research, and changed the 10% Canola oil to 10% Pure Anhydrous Lanolin. This new formula seems to last forever, and works extremely well in both rifles and pistols. I did extensive pan lubing with the rifle bullets in several calibers, and lubed my 452664 bullets in a lube sizer without issue. I competed and shot in both hot and cold weather without issue. I also used smokeless and Pyrodex as well as duplex loading before the our ranges changed to NRA rules for straight Black Powder. Never a problem with the new formula lube.

P.S. I could shoot the Ruger .45 Colts, about 70 shots before fouling interfered with the cylinder. Five minute cleaning job and the revolvers were ready for another 70 shots. rdm

FWIW
Dale53

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dale53

Greenjoytj:

I started shooting with the original Emmerts formula (50% pure natural beeswax, 40% Crisco, and 10% canola oil. This formula worked quite well but would deteriorate when lubed bullets were properly stored longer than a single season. I did a little research, and changed the 10% Canola oil to 10% Pure Anhydrous Lanolin.

FWIW
Dale53

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Thanks, I had the same question about heat and longevity. Is there any meaningful difference when you cook up the new recipe or is it pretty much the same? I haven't worked with AH before.

Jsnover;
Good to see your name out there. You may not remember, but I believe I competed with you many, many years ago. As I remember, you were a genuine authority on BPCR’s.

I was always careful to melt the original Emmert's as well as my “Improved Emmert’s” using a “Double Boilet” to avoid overheating the lube. Overheating it will absolutely ruin it. My “Double Boiler” consisted if a pan on a stove with few inches of water in it with a couple of Mason Jar rings in the bottom to keep a large Pyrex measuring cup off the bottom. I assemble the DB, put the Beeswax in first. Turn the heat on, and when the water Beeswax melts to the proper level, add the Crisco up to the proper level, then, the Anhydrous Lanolin. Stir carefully, and when all is melted, you are ready to go. Melting the lube in a large Pyrex cup makes it easy to measre the ingredients as you go. I took care to CAREFULLY measure it.

I, using large cake pans, pan lubed my BPCR bullets. As I stated above, I used a dedicated Lyman or RCBS lube sizer to lube my pistol bullets.

Hope this helps!

Dale 53

Dale53
When I read that you used lanolin in your Emmerts lube it reminded me that when I made my lube 3 years ago I made the “Emmerts Improved” formula. Which reduced the 10% liquid oil ingredient to 5% and added 5% Anhydrous Lanolin.
So my lube already has 5% anhydrous lanolin by weigh in the mix.

I could make up a smaller batch this time that eliminates the liquid oil. Or try to rescue a portion my existing batch. My first batch was a big one, calculated to use up the entire 1 pound brick of Crisco as I didn’t want any left over.
I also used EVOO in my lube batch, in place of the Canola oil in the original formula.

I would like to rescue a portion of my Emmerts Improved, but I need to know what to add to counter this lube propensity to liquify so much in a hot barrel if fired in the absence of Black Powder fouling.

I think the BP fouling was sopping up the excessive liquid melting in a hot barrel.
Now lately firing more smokeless shots has brought to light that my Emmerts Improved is not suitable for shooting in hot weather with a hot barrel or a barrel heated up from extended strings of shooting.

Or I could just select another lube recipe that’s known to work well with smokeless powder in a hot barrel.

Greenjoytj;
I suggest that you make up a small batch of MY formula “Emmert’s Improved”, and try it in your guns using your loads. If it works for you, the problem is solved!

Years ago, I took a week’s IPSC class from World Champion Ray Chapman. I was shooting Full charge cast bullet reloads in my 1911. All of my ammo was carried in a couple of ammo cans. The Class took place in Columbia Missouri during a nearly unprecedented heat wave. It was over 100 degrees, as I remember, and my bullets lubed with homemade NRA 50/50. I, in error, left my ammo can setting in the sun for no more than 20 minutes. For the rest of the class days, I was subjected to several missfires!�� The heat had melted the lube, and killed the primers of the defective loads. When I got back in Ohio, I switched to Lars’ White Label “Carnauba Red”, and that has been my choice for smokeless loads since then. CR must be used with a lube sizer heater as it will not flow at room temp. I had never had a problem with 50/50 lube before but the extreme weather had caused it.

Now, to be clear, I probably over reacted, but that’s what happened. White Label Lube is priced so favorably that I quit making my own lube, with the exception that I STILL use the Improved Emmert's for Black Powder revolver cartridges.

FWIW
Dale53

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dale53

Jsnover;
Good to see your name out there. You may not remember, but I believe I competed with you many, many years ago. As I remember, you were a genuine authority on BPCR’s.

I was always careful to melt the original Emmert's as well as my “Improved Emmert’s” using a “Double Boilet” to avoid overheating the lube. Overheating it will absolutely ruin it. My “Double Boiler” consisted if a pan on a stove with few inches of water in it with a couple of Mason Jar rings in the bottom to keep a large Pyrex measuring cup off the bottom. I assemble the DB, put the Beeswax in first. Turn the heat on, and when the water Beeswax melts to the proper level, add the Crisco up to the proper level, then, the Anhydrous Lanolin. Stir carefully, and when all is melted, you are ready to go. Melting the lube in a large Pyrex cup makes it easy to measre the ingredients as you go. I took care to CAREFULLY measure it.

I, using large cake pans, pan lubed my BPCR bullets. As I stated above, I used a dedicated Lyman or RCBS lube sizer to lube my pistol bullets.

Hope this helps!

Dale 53

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Thank you Dale but I gotta be honest: I'm not him. As far as I know I'm no relation to John Snover you shot with or Ron Snover at IXL (one look at my last target would prove it for certain).
And thanks again for the description of your process, looks like anhydrous lanolin is a drop-in sub for canola oil. I had a batch of original formula Emmert's go rancid years ago and I never knew why. I could tell by the foul smell. The stuff I have now is a long way from new, still looks and feels the same but has lost it's aroma so I assume it's on it's way out.

You could try adding some carnuba wax which works well in high heat conditions.