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I just got a new 1885 Browning Highwall rifle in 45-70. My son noticed that the but stock is a bit loose. There is a slight shift from l to r. Is there any way this can be tightened? My guess it has a bolt through the stock. I do have one more question. Wht would anyone put a high gloss urethane finish on an old style gun. Would it be a sin to strip it and put an oil finish on it, the wood is beautiful.
Nick
Pull the butt pad or plate there will be a hole to access the through bolt. How many Brownings have you seen that didn't have high gloss finish? I'll bet not many. Many people like that type of finish, I don't and it sounds like you don't. If you intend to keep the rifle refinish it as you like. What's not to like about a classic single shot in 45-70.
Browning put that high gloss finish on most of their guns in the last fifty or so years. Some it looks okay on, other it doesn't.
It is your rifle, do what you want to it. I personally feel that a less garish finish looks better on most rifles.
I have never had the stock off a Browning single shot, but I do think they have a through bolt and it sounds like yours is loose.
Robert
It may take a little more than just tightening the stock bolt. I would carefully remove the but plate and stock bolt then the stock. If there is a tenon on it spot it to the receiver. Alsos look for compressed areas or cracks chips. You may need a touch of bedding material to repair it.
If this is a new rifle then I would first contact browning about it. if t is new to you then you may have to fix it. Before you contact browning put a piece of masking tape on receiver and then one on wrist of stock a pencil line between the two in line then rotate one way and measure then the other and measure this will allow to to accurately describe the rock to them.
I have to admit I am fond of an oil finish. I have been building Muzzleloaders and Rolling blocks. It is fun to bring the old ones back. Do you think someone will do this for us?:roll:
There is a bolt inside the stock that you can tighten. You’ll need an extension for your ratchet. I can’t remember the size, but it’s metric. Don’t over tighten it. When you take the recoil pad/butt plate off there will be a good sized hole under the pad/plate and the bolt is at the bottom of the hole.
I'm big on oil finishes too.
If you're going to strip & re finish it, I'd check around first to be sure it doesn't have some
sort of epoxy on it. That stuff can be frustrating to remove and soak out so the oil will 'take'.
And don't sand it!
Let the chemical strippers do their job!
The Browning Traditional Hunter didn't have the same high gloss finish, and were just a nice sheen. I personally don't like the plastic look to them. But I'm also not a fan of a flat finished stock, if it's too flat. I like a bit of a sheen like a hand rubbed oil finish has. Many of the old 1800's single shot rifles had very nice finishes, and Marlin in particular had an extra cost "piano finish" that was somewhat higher sheen than usual.
This is the finish I put on stocks I build and finish.
https://i.imgur.com/RJLS1NEl.jpg
Attachment 291644
My 1885 Browning Low Wall finish.
You can get hand rubbed oil to shine as much as poly, the only difference is it won't have the plastic look. Nitrocellulose lacquer also won't have the plastic look but NCL never truly cures either. I like tongue oil with a LOT of elbow grease. Here is my Remington Autoloading shotgun from 1906 that has a lot of work done to the stock to bring it back to original.Attachment 291645
Not all poly finishes are equal, and not all shine like the plastic look that Brownings have on many models. Laurel Mountain Permalyn Sealer is a polyurethane, and many highly regarded custom gun makers use it because it looks like hand rubbed oil finish.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beaver Scout
Another system is MinnWax Wipe On Poly, which is much like Laurel Mountain, and also looks like hand rubbed oil finish. I've used both, and still use them and like them a lot.
What finish did you use. I used linseed oil. With multiple coats and a final coat of wax it turned out well.
The problem I had is it really darkened the wood. OOps I should have kept reading.
I have used Wipe On Poly ever since I got tired of paying the huge price of Laurel Mountain Permalyn Sealer from Brownell's a couple decades ago. I loved Permalyn Sealer too, but at $25 for a 12 oz. can back 20+ years ago, it got ridiculous.Quote:
Originally Posted by fiatdad
The WOP gives the same appearance and looks much like a hand rubbed oil finish. And unlike most poly finishes it can be touched up, or blended in if you scratch or ding your finish. It doesn't go on with any less steps than an oil finish, but it soaks in far better, and protects the wood far better. The best part of WOP is how flexible it is in gunstock restoration work! It will go over almost any finish, and not have a bad reaction should you not quite get all the old finish off. A lot of other products will never dry, and remain tacky if you don't get all the old finish off.
WOP to an 1885 Martini Henry, I'm with Marlinman93, it gives the appearance of a hand rubber finish!
https://i.imgur.com/irOVKtrh.jpg
Also use WOP satin on modern guns but apply it over Watco clear Danish oil. The DO penetrates and seals and can be used as is but I apply two coats of the WOP for further protection.
In defense of the dreaded Browning finish: There probably isn't a better clear finish out there for a rifle that's going to see hard use in extreme weather conditions. On several of them I've simply rubbed the finish out with rottenstone which greatly alters the character of the finish to a duller lustrous sheen.
The only time I use an oil finish on a stock is if it's bound to be a safe queen that only ventures out to the range on bluebird days. Reason: oil finishes suck when tasked with the prevention of water fenestration. Usually though I utilize gloss spar varnish*, about ten coats aggressively blocked out with 320x between coats creating a relatively thin final barrier coat, which is then rubbed out with rottenstone to knock the gloss down, and finally waxed to restore a pleasing subtle luster (which is often mistaken for an oil finish by the uninitiated). Fairly labor intensive, but the best things in this man's world usually are.
Example:
https://i.imgur.com/aum1lAel.jpg
Model 70 I recently did using the above protocols. A previous owner had slathered his own varnish out over everything, without removing the metal from the wood. Yup.
*Never use matte/semi-gloss as it doesn't have nearly the UV protection that gloss varnish offers. Achieve the matte effect by rubbing out the glossy stuff.
On raw new wood, I've never seen anything soak in as well, and as quickly as WOP! It's extremely thin when new, and the watery consistency will soak in as fast as you can apply it, even if you really wet your brush or rag.
I usually give raw wood 3 or 4 repeated coats before I see it's staying wet. At that point I wipe all the excess wetness off the wood, and set it aside. I've even used a heat shrink gun, or hair dryer to warm the wood prior to application so it draws into the wood even more.
My Hepburn took 16 coats before I called it good enough. But most raw wood is good after about 12 coats. It goes on so quickly, and easily, it's not a problem regardless of the number of coats. Early coats go over immediately, but after about 8 coats I wait overnight to apply each subsequent coat. I also wet sand the WOP with 400 grit as I apply it after the first 4 coats.
Once the stocks are done, I wait about 3 weeks to cure. Two if it's near a warm air source, as that speeds curing up. Then I use rottenstone powder on a damp terry cloth towel to hand rub the finish, until it's all smooth and dull evenly. Then I wipe it with a damp clean cloth, and follow up by waxing it with Minn Wax paste rubbed in with my fingers, and buff it with a clean soft towel.
https://i.imgur.com/9gtUTuJl.jpg
As always, many ways to skin a well dressed cat!
Whenever I see the phrase 'hand rubbed finish' to describe a look I kinda chuckle. Wife's grandfather worked at a piano factory where every one was a 'hand rubbed finish' and was glossier than any modern finish. They had a depth that has to be seen to be appreciated. I know of a few furniture makers who use that technique as well. To them the 'satin' look is a half finished job.
Not all hand rubbed finishes are like the finish you see on a piano, and for good reason. Hand rubbed finishes on pianos are to get the result you described; a very high gloss. But hand rubbed finishes on gun stocks are to ensure the pores are not existent, and left more satin to hide handling marks, or bumps. If gun stocks were polished like a piano they'd be shiny, but every mark will show.Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie b
My stocks are finished using the WOP in gloss, but I knock it down using rottenstone powder, and hand buff them afterwards to the sheen level I prefer. Back in the 1800's many gun makers offered what was called a "deluxe finish" or even a "piano finish", which would be closer to that finish seen on a piano. Not many wanted it as it takes a lot of care handling them to avoid marks or bruises.
People who finish pianos or furniture usually have zero knowledge about why a gun stock has the finish it has.
The point is that a 'hand rubbed finish' does not describe the sheen of the finish at all. It is merely how the oil/varnish is applied to the wood.
Just as a spray on polyurethane finish does not describe if it is gloss, satin, or flat.
Furniture folks do understand a non-glossy look and they use it frequently, for the some of the same reasons gun stocks are left satin or flat. FYI, for a long time many higher end rifles and shotguns had finishes that rivaled the best of the 'piano' finishes.
Yes, presentation grade shotguns and double rifles often have extremely high gloss finishes. But as stated, a satin finish is not half done. It takes me as long to get the satin sheen, or longer. Often when I'm done the finish end result is much shinier, and I knock it down in the final steps to not result in too glossy a finish for my uses.Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie b
The buttstock should not be loose; careful tightening of the throughbolt might solve the problem but I would pull the stock and consider placing a dab of Acraglass on the stock tennon before reinstalling with just enough torque to secure the stock while the Acraglass cures. Then torque the through bolt. A little wax applied to the inside of the receiver where the stock seats will make future stock removal easy. That glossy Browning finish is a great waterproof finish; I would keep it and just knock the shine down a little with rotten stone then wax to the desired luster. Congrats on your new rifle.Quote:
Originally Posted by fiatdad