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I need a load for my 500 S&W. My 75 year old uncle wants to shoot it but at this point in his life recoil is not his thing. I could figure out something, but figured some of you have almost certainly played with this and if you have a good recommendation, I would rather use that than guess. Looking to downgrade to 44 spl type recoil. Probably will use the Lee 440 grain boolit.
Don't take this wrong, but have you ever seen a little freight train (no models allowed)? Not trying to be mean, but your question sorta made me laugh. Low recoil? You'll have to slow it way down or you don't have a chance. People laughed at me when I wanted a 1300 fps load for my .454 too (and I didn't even mention low recoil). They said if you've got a butt kicking gun it's just gonna kick but. Big problem you really are facing is all of that lead! Light and slow= low recoil.
I use 30 grains of 5744 with the Lee 440 grain and is around 1000 FPS or that is what my manual says it is very easy to shoot I can easily shoot them 1 handed. But Im sure you could even lower the powder some more.
With the weight of the 500 pistols, you should be able to get a plinker load. My brother fiddled with Trailboss powder, which works great in large capacity cases. Accuracy didn't equal the full power loads, but was adequate for general plinking/fooling around. The formula for Trailboss in straight wall cases is: Fill a case to where the base of a bullet will be, and weigh the charge, 70% of this weight is your start charge. Just never compress Trailboss, they say it changes the burn rate dramatically. It's a very clean, easy to ignite powder.
Please don't take this as a personal criticizm but I have never come to close to understanding the reasoning for taking a honking big caliber like .44 mag or .500 S&W or any one of a dozen others and loading it down like a .38 wadcutter to shoot. It's like getting a tractor and 53 foot trailer to cruise around the neighborhood or go to the 7-11 in it. When you don't want/need all that power, why not just plink with a .22 or 9mm or something like that. I know you can do what you want, I'm just trying to understand the reasoning...
Good point, leftiye. This is a place where a bullet of something other than lead might make sense. Maybe glue sticks? Or wood? Open field here.
Scrounger, the biggest reason I can think of is that alot of people can't or don't want to handle the recoil of full power loads for an extended period. Hot stuff may be fun for a cylinder or two, but thats it for alot of people. I have shot my brothers 500 quite a bit, and with 460 grainers at 1,400+, 20 shots or so is enough. I can shoot more, but it's not so much fun. My .475 kicks even harder, and the same applies. They may just really like the gun, and want to be able to enjoy it for extended shooting sessions. I shoot mostly full power stuff, but driving to the range and quitting after 20 or 30 rounds kinda stinks.
Try 10 grains of Unique, its about as low recoil as I have used. I now use 11.3grains of unique with my 440lee cast and get around 800 fps in my 4" S&W.
You could also look into some trail boss load date.
But 11.3 is not a real light load.
Good luck,
Tim
Try Pyrodex or 777. It is a hoot and will have the entire range staning around you wanting to know what you are shooting. Recoil is not bad either. Ask twoworms!!
leftiye and scrounger, I agree with you. The whole point of a 500 S&W is the power. But still there are those who want to just shoot the gun but not have all the recoil, and those include some of my family members. But I am in Dubber's camp. Although I love the power of the gun, after I touch off about 20 full house rounds I have had enough recoil out of that gun, and want to just plink. Thanks for the unique suggestion. I think I will try that for the upcoming shooting with my uncle. I like the idea of experimenting with trailboss as well. And the pyrodex sounds like it would be really fun. I will have to give that a try. Do you just fill the case and tamp a bullet down on it?
I don't like recoil myself, .45 ACP is about my comfort level. I have a .44 Mag but I don't shoot it, it's just there if I ever decide to shoot it. And it will be with full power loads, no point otherwise. I have several guns to choose from to get the recoil level I want. I guess the problem is I can't conceive of a need for a gun that big, it is so far above what I could handle that I just can't see it. Obviously a lot of others feel the need to buy it.
From Hodgdon's 2007 Annual Manual:
500 S&W 440 gr. cast
Starting load 7.0 Trail Boss Predicted vel. 643 fps Pressure 14600 psi
Max load 10.0 Trail Boss predicted vel. 799 fps Pressure 21200.
There's nothing else listed anywhere close to that low. The next lowest is a starting load of 14.5 of Titegroup. Predicted vel. 1191 fps Pressure 42700 psi. Trail Boss would be the only powder that I'd try for a reduced load, because of its bulkiness. A reduced charge of anything else would be lost in that monster case.
Scrounger, I've been afraid to say that on this forum! Yes, there are pistol ctgs that I think are a little nutso too. Not only are they insanely uncomfortable to shoot, they probably suffer from design flaws ballistically.
After about .44 cal (yes even the .45s) the large bore diameter causes energy loss at such a rate that long range shooting starts to be a joke. Couple that with the large meplat thang, and it gets really bad! Then add the loss of accuracy with those large meplats at long range, and you start to wonder what's the use. The 10mm automag hits harder at 200 yds. than a 45 acp does at the muzzle (as an example only, the 45 auto isn't really what I'm talking about here). The point being that a 500 S&W (not hammering your peestola Happy7) and the larger linebaughs, etc. won't hit as hard as a 44 mag at 500 yds. Yes, Elmer killed deer at 500 yds with his 44 mag., but even that has to be wondered about. And yes Elmer liked his SWCs, but how much faster would a semi pointed soft nose or hollow point be going at that range?
Back before all of these new cannon rounds became popular, I got interested in hunting pistols. In my way of looking at it, I could hit deer sized things at way over 200 yds. Heck, I almost hit jackrabbits at 200 yds. Put a scope on it, and utilize a rest, and that range might well be doubled. (a scoped revolter shoots as accurately as many deer rifles) About there I realized that it might not be humane to shoot an animal with any of the pistols available at those ranges. 357s can't really be relied on to knock deer down inside 100 yds. Friends of mine have shot deer with them and the deer went down, and then got up and ran off.
So, you drift in the direction of bullets with some ballistic coefficient that expand. BC increases at any given weight with two things - smaller diameter, and aerodynamic shape. After that, you still have to have enough retained velocity at the distance the bullet intersects the game for expansion to take place. If you don't, you shouldn't shoot that animal. Linebaugh characterizes pistols as "long range punch presses" and he's right. That's his rationale for big bore revolters- bigger holes. As with the kieth example, a 44mag swc will kill deer at 500 yds, you've just got to wonder though if it really is enough to poke a hole in an animal if you want to to kill it humanely.
Now this could be the start of another controversy here so I want to bail out now. There are uses for those huge calibers, if you're man enough to use them, and I think 99.99% of us aren't. I know my limits and they are shrinking.
We'll see if anyone else weighs in, but let's just say as someone who has both, the 44. mag definately does not hit harder at longer ranges than a .475. I have NOT shot anything at 500 yds., but I can certainly HEAR the difference of a 440 gr. bullet hitting a plate at 300 yds., compared to a 300 gr. bullet. Doesn't really matter, because I won't personally shoot at anything live beyond 100 yds. max with any handgun, except a coyote. My 2 cents.
I ran some numbers on my shooting program, it looks to me like the 500S&W has more at 500yds than a 44Mag. I used at 44mag at 1500fps thats pushing it a bit, and the 440 500S&W at 1650fps thats real data for the 500 S&W. 310gr BC .218 Lee data, 440gr BC .296 Lee data. 500 yards 500S&W=935ft# 44Mag=500ft#. If the BC on each boolit was the same the 500S&W would have more due to more grains to start with. I don't know if you can push a 310 to 1500fps, that may change things a little, but if it could make 1650 it still lacks the punch at 500yards.
Tim
tite group is a good low recoil powder and burns very clean,I get one and a half inch groups at 50 yards with my 454 casull shooting gas check boolits.
Two worms, You'll notice that I didn't restrict myself to cast boolits. And actually I'm thinking more of a .445 Supermag, though I know I said .44 (1600 fps with a 300 gr b(oo/u)llitt). In the same weight b(oo/u)llitt, the .44 slug will always have a much better B.C. than a .50 cal. of the same design. Also, the real question isn't energy, it's velocity. If the .44 can't expand due to low velocity, then the larger calibers have some advantage (though the .44 does qualify as large bore too though).
Other than a little advantage for the larger meplat, all hard cast bullets just punch holes. So at close range all of these kill the heck out of whatever is behind the animal, and only expend whatever energy in the animal that it takes to penetrate. That's why for personal protection I prefer a .45 Colt or ACP to a 44 mag. They do almost as much damage, and don't kill five bystanders down the street.
There is also the advantage of trajectory, with the projectile moving the fastest, and slowing down the slower shooting flatter. This whole subject simply revisits the transition from large bore rifles to smaller diameter projectiles, and one can study the killing power of the old early metallic cartridge guns and apply it to revolvers directly by just ignoring the handgun as the launching platform. After all, a 300 grain load in a 454 is almost identical to early loads in the 45-70.
With the pyrodex loads, you need to fill the case just so you are getting slight compression. Ask two worms he had loaded these before. It was his gun that I shot with these loads.
the 454 casull has the same power as a 45-70 in most loadings and that is what makes it a great cast boolit gun. a 300 grain boolit impacting a game animal at 1400 fps is very good at taking almost anything thing out there and has done so all over the world for over 100 years.impact velocity over 1400 fps isn't needed and the 45 colt does very well also.the main reason I like the 454 casull is 1400 fps loads don't strain the gun at all and the brass last forever in my model 83.