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Lyman 450 problem
Hi
I am new here and from the Netherlands so forgive me if I make some language mistakes :-P
I shoot almost 50 years and approx 45 years antique firarms like Winchesters - Trapdoors - Sharps and Colts SA
Therefor I cast the cast bullet heads to make my own bullets.
Casting went good untill 3 weeks ago.
I contact Lyman for the problem but the part that what I think is not good anymore is out of production.
The 450 model is out of production but parts from 4500 is interchangable with 450 except the seal plug and I think that part is the problem.
What is happen :
When I turn the spindle to push the seal plug down the seal plug turn around and will not going down to press the lube into the bullet grooves.
I renew the o-rings but that did not help.
Lyman told me that the size of the o-rings are 1,129" OD and 0,989" ID and 0,70" thick
Even I doubt if that is the correct size because the grooves in the seal plug is much wider I still bought those rings here with the size 28mm OD x 25mm ID x 2mm thick
I search the web and found a possible solution : heating pad under the press
They are not available or not in stock here and then I found some info to make it my self so I mount a 10mm aluminium plate under the press and heat that up with a clothing iron and that helps to warm up the press but the seal plug still turns inside the press.
I am out of solutions and hope someone can advice me what else I can try to fix this problem.
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1 Attachment(s)
Attachment 297393
Here is my simple solution, a metal plate under the 450 with an iron on the back. Keep the iron on low and take it off if the lube gets too soft.
Another way is to use a heat gun and warm the sides of the 450.
Some lubes require heat to flow properly, hope this helps.
Slim
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The o-rings , Lyman part # 2990689 (2) , should still be in production , They are used on the 4500 and the later 450 .
My early 450 has a brass compression ring not rubber but the later 450's were changed to rubber .
Here is the size of the o-ring :
outside diameter - 1 1/16" (revised this dimension )
inside diameter - 13/16" (revised this dimension)
thickness - 1/8"
Sorry , but my measurements are in inch and fractions of an inch but that is what my scale (ruler) is marked in . I can't do conversion
Do a search for - Lyman Part #2990689
This is the part number for the o-rings , you will need two .
These o-rings wear out and have to be replaced so should be available , many 450's and 4500's still in use .
I was reading about using hardware store o rings and Lyman has theirs sized special ... hardware store rings are usually a liitle too small or a little too large to work right ... Your best fit will be a Lyman replacement part #2990689 . Lyman has them listed on their replacement parts web site for $0.26 (26 cents) - available and in stock - Lyman Products Replacement Parts .
Good luck
Welcome to the forum
Gary
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There should be enough friction between the plug and the internal sides of the sizer to prevent the plug from turning when the spindle turns once the plug is entirely in the sizer. Have you replaced the two O rings recently or are they damaged or broken? If you replaced them they are too small and need to be thicker. The only other wag I’ve got would be its not threaded on the spindle correctly.
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Welcome to the forum.
You could likely improvise to get going again while you source the right O rings. Remove the plug, remove the o rings, then add a dozen wraps of Teflon tape to the groove where the o ring goes. That’ll make it tighter. I ain’t ever done it with a lubesizer but have with other o ring seals.
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gwpercle has the correct part number. I hope the cost of shipping to the Netherlands doesn’t ruin you.
Since you have the nut out of the press, perhaps you could take it with you to the hardware store and find something that would fit. It doesn’t have to be perfect.
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1 Attachment(s)
First of all thanks for your answers
@slim 1836
I did that but it did not solve the problem
I put a 10mm thick aluminium plate under de press and heat it up with an iron, plate get warm just like the press it self but the seal plug keep turn around when I turn the spindle
Attachment 297394
@gwpercle
What I understand is that the 450 was the previous model and later came the 4500.
Lyman wrote me that the 4500 seal plug is not interchangable with the 450 so I understand that the o-rings are not the same.
Your sizes are different from the size Lyman wrote me.
I also measure the plug and OD is 1,1/16 so the size of your ring is not compatable with my plug
I think that is why Lyman wrote me that the lugs are not interchagable because the 4500 is bigger
And the difference between OD and ID is not as much as twice the thickness ?
@baltimoreed
I replace the 2 o-rings on advice of Lyman and before I did that I clean the hole press and also the spindel which works smootly now
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I rebuilt 3 450's 2 years ago. Ebay has the seals in a kit and other things and easier to order. Lyman should have the parts. Take the 450 apart and look at a Lyman parts list. They have part #'s and prices. I have 6 in operation and another on the way. You can crack pecans with them also. The newer pistons have 2 0rings instead of 1 and trouble free. If you buy the piston It comes with the 0rings. The 450's can leak on the bottom if not mounted flat. I have used an old inter tube under some. Air conditioning <green>0rings will work on some of the parts.
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This is what Lyman wrote me :
That looks like the seal plug to the 450 Lube Sizer. While most parts to our newer 4500 will interchange with the 450, the seal plug is not one of the interchangeable parts and we no longer have any in stock. You can try putting in new o-rings to see if that will help. They are 1.129” OD, .989” ID and .070” thick. Hope this helps.
Because I wrote back about the o-ring size they wrote me as follow :
Those o-rings would be the correct ones for that seal plug. Unfortunately, the parts you need for that model are no longer available.
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Looking at your photo----If you can't pull the threaded bolt up and out you are good.<It goes in from the bottom> The piston is threaded and turns right. Once the piston makes contact with the cylinder it doesn't turn anymore. It goes up and down. The wrench turns left to lower and put pressure on the lube. If the lube is hard you will have to take it apart and put a solder iron in the cylinder to melt the old lube out. Looks like you have an older piston with 1 0ring or there is an 0ring missing on the bottom. <should have 2 0rings>. I use a medium soft lube that requires no heat for pistols and a harder lube for rifle with a little heat<110 degrees or so>If too hot it will leak around the bottom of the lube sizer or the top of the lube sizer piston when pressure is applied.
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Also looking at your photo you have to hold the plug and turn the threaded spindle counterclockwise to get the plug to move down the bolt into the body of the sizer. Also there are softer lubes and hard ones that need heat. Look on line. I prefer hard Lyman orange magic but I’ve got a heater on my two 450’s.
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Are the threads damaged on the Pressure screw, (what you call the spindle) ?
Because that would cause your problem.
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The picture looks like to me the same as my 450 except it’s missing the bottom o ring.
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You received bad information from Lyman. The pressure screw thread, length and reservoir diameter have been the same from earliest production of the 45 to the current 4500. The current 4500 pressure nut and its O rings can be retrofit in all of the sizers from the 45 through the 4500. Order 2 pieces of part number 2990689 and you will have what you need.
In the picture you show, the pressure nut is not yet down to the lube reservoir. It needs to start into the reservoir before there is friction to hold the nut and allow it continue to be tightened. Hold the outside of the nut with your fingers and turn the screw until the nut enters the reservoir. If you can’t keep the nut from spinning in your fingers when you turn the screw, check for old lube in the screw threads. Clean that out and it should be easy to spin the nut down.
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I use it for over 20 years and until 3 weeks ago it works fine
I can´t take out the spindel (threaded bolt) from the top and the picture shows the plug with 2 o-rings inside but with lube around that is why you don´t see the 2e o-ring but it is there.
The lube is hard so I was hoping it works fine with a heater pad under the press but that did not work, plug still turn around
Spindel is fine and I can run the spindel in the plug with my hand without any problem
@irmashooter
If that is thru then I can order them but problem is I have to order them in the US at Lyman because it is not in stock here
S/H from Lyman to the Netherland cost $28 while regular shippingcost is almost nothing therefor I bought equivalent o-ring sizes here and the size was on advice of Lyman
Lyman wrote me that the size of the o-rings are 1,129" OD and 0,989" ID and 0,70" thick so I bought rings here at the size 28mm OD x 25mm ID x 2mm thick
I understand I need o-rings 1 3/16" OD x 1 1/16" ID with thickness of 1/8" converted to metric it will be 30mm OD x 27mm ID and 3mm thick
But the OD of the nut is 27,5mm which is almost the same as the ID of the o-ring !?
ID of the groove of the nut is 22,2mm = 7/8"
Size confuse me because the o-ring fall over the nut
The nut was taken out to check but it is normal inside the reservoir.
If I turn the spindle it pull the nut down until the lub and then it stop and start turning around when I turn the spindle (screw or threaded bolt)
Like I wrote it works fine until 3 weeks ago.
If gwpercle is right about the size of the o-rings and if I convert it correct, maybe someone can check it for me, then I try to find the o-rings here but as I say the size confuse me
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Take out the sizing die.
Gently heat the tube with a propane torch
When the lube is soft, turn the ratchet handle and
strip all the old lube from the 450.
Have a bucket under the 450 to catch the old lube.
Remove the insert in the H&I die and put in the sizing die
back into the 450. Put new lube in the 450 and insure it
is softened with some heat.
Twist the ratchet and see the lube come out the lube holes
in the die. If so, GOOD, replace the insert and start lubing
bullets.
Let us know how this works for you
Mike
p.s. also, please insure the head of the pressure screw is intact and
does not need to be brazed.
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If you don't have damaged threads and your O-rings are large enough to seal in the reservoir ...then look for issues where the Lube touches the pressure nut (piston, plug). Like oil or something? The lube should be somewhat sticky and that helps to hold the pressure nut to keep it from turning.
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If the threaded top piston <pressure screw>spins in the cylinder the 0rings are worn out. Ebay they are under$10 but I would buy the assembly with 0rings installed.
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I wonder if the language barrier is a problem. If the pressure nut threads down until it hits the lube and then it spins, perhaps the pressure screw is stripped just above the lube.
@Nol, can you look down into the reservoir with strong light and confirm the threads on the pressure screw are still good?
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The language barrier doesn’t affect me. I think I understand perfectly. He needs new o rings that are correct size.
Why not take the pressure nut and the old o rings to the hardware store and find something close as you can. Buy the sizes that are close and try them.