22 Hornet Fishing Expedition

…Fishing for data, that is. Specifically, data on where best to get data.

I have a lot less experience than many here, so my policy has been that I’ll only take data from the web if I can confirm it’s a lower loading than published data I have in my hand. For that reason, my goal is to find a manual that lists IMR-4198 and IMR-4227 with 55gr cast bullets. I think I've read every thread on the 22 Hornet on this forum, and seen lots of great recs and favorite loads—I'm just looking for a published load table to start me out. Later I’ll likely add a 225438 or the NOE remake of the 225107 (said to be a dream in the Hornet), but for now I’m stuck with what I have.

It seems modern references on 22 Hornet are geared almost exclusively toward fast twists and jacketed. Even my Lyman’s 4th Cast has only two entries in the 22 Hornet rifle section. When I got into the idea of reloading the Hornet, I had seen all kinds of recommendations for IMR 4227 and 4198—both powders I have. The Lyman’s also has data on loading 55 grainers with Red Dot, and I hunted some down to give it a try.

I have the Lee-Midsouth version of the Bator bullet, which I learned after buying is not the Bator of lore. At 55 grains and a longer profile than the old Bator it has trouble stabilizing at low speeds in a 1-16 twist. In my Savage 340 24” barrel, 4227 and 4198 seemed to offer a solution. But for the fact that in my modern references, there’s no data to be found.

I loaded the Red Dot through most of its load range with keyholing and 6” or bigger groups at 25 yards. I also gave the fabled Lil’ Gun a shot. After days of searching for data I finally took the lowest starting load I could find, for a same-weight jacketed bullet, and decreased it 20%. Those loads shot alright but I was stuck with a narrow range of weights in one powder. After some later reading in Beagle’s castpics writeup on loading cast in the 22 Hornet, I estimate those loads were going out close to 2500 fps.

Larry Gibson, always a great source of information on reloading my favorite calibers 22 Hornet and 45-70 Govt., has said on this forum that Lil’ Gun is not the greatest for cast bullets. I wonder if the same holds true for a GC round? Larry, if you’re out there, I would appreciate your wisdom.

This brings me back to 4198 and 4227. I’ve given the Red Dot and Lil’ Gun a run-through. 4198/4227 are said to be great slower-burning powders that I think could really get a round moving in my 24” barrel—though at a slightly tamer speed than the Lil’ Gun. And they’re on hand. All I need now is a good manual to give some starting data. All I have so far are the Lyman’s 50th, Lyman’s Cast 4th Edition, and load tables that came with my Lee dies. What older manual would you most recommend for some 22 Hornet cast load data? Lyman's 3rd? I’ve also seen praise for the 1967 Lyman 44th Ed. Reloading Handbook.


Bonus question: If you were buying an H&R Handi Rifle in 22 Hornet, what’s the dream configuration? I’ve learned they were offered in three different twists: 1-16, 1-12 and 1-9. Any other options that are “the way to go?” A few years ago I set out to find a Handi, and ended up with my Savage 340e with original Weaver side-saddle 4x scope. I love the Savage, but the Handi bug has bitten again. I’ll be on the lookout for a bit and will take recommendations about the best setup. And what would you call a reasonable price?

openbook

For a new handi rifle, if you’re set on 55gr projectiles consider one in .223 rem rather than .22 Hornet. I’ve never shot anything as heavy as 55gr in a hornet because it’s awesome at 35-40gr and mediocre at 55gr. Just my experience.

Nick Harvey's Practical reloading manual lists both.

IMR-4198
start 10.3gr 2135fps
MAX 12.2gr 2412fps

IMR-4227
start 9.5gr 2200fps
MAX 11.2gr 2430fps

Shot in Brno ZKM 465 (59.2cm bbl)

Now, he doesn't specify if these are jacketed or cast. I suspect jacketed, but it gives you a place to start. I'd want to start with a load that'll be around 1800fps, a little guesstimating will get you a start charge for cast. I hope you have a chrono.

I know you want verifiable data, I don't have that but I do have an anecdote if that is worth anything. When I started shooting silhouette with a Contender 22 hornet, I too had a pound of 4198 for some reason, and a RCBS 55 gr mould. It didn't take me long to realize that 4198 is too slow for the hornet, and I couldn't overload it. So reloading became really easy - dip the case in 4198 to fill it up, then seat a bullet on top and go shoot. That combination won many matches for me and was certainly easy to duplicate. I still couldn't tell you how much powder I used, and it didn't matter. Also I believe that TC barrel is 1:12 twist and it shot beautifully with the 55 gr bullets.

My 22 Hornet would not stabilize the 55 RCBS with low speeds. Book loads of Red Dot caused tumbling at 25 yards. Push it faster with H110 and it does well.

The 22 Hornet was brought out as a small varmint round and not meant to shoot way over weight bullets that will likely be very unstable due low velos. The Vmax or Nosler BT 40gr with AA1680 or Lil Gun will be a top performer so why not use them? if you must have heavy bullets use the 222 or 223 case..

Appreciate the replies. Nothing against jacketed or lighter bullets. And as of now I don't load for .223. I just happen to have a 22 Hornet and a Lee-Midsouth Bator mold that casts 55 grains. It's a matter of making what ya have work. I wouldn't call 55 overweight, more like top-end. The way I got into the 55gr bullet in the Hornet is the gent who sold me my Savage told me about the joys of working up a subsonic squirrel load with the Bator. I'm not sure how he did it, maybe he was talking about a different rifle. He had multiple in 22 Hornet.

OTOH, with the 24" barrel I'm confident this can be done. Now it's become a passion project.

I do have a small collection of 40gr V-max that I look forward to trying at some point.

JonB thank you for the data.

Nobade I've heard the same before—Great system for 4198! Now if I only had a 1-12 twist. [smilie=b:

JimB and gc45, I would love a 222 Handi as well. 223 even.

openbook

In years past I tried the 225415 in my #3 Ruger and several other 16" twist 22 Hornets. With some I got really good accuracy at 50 yards but that went south at about 70 - 75 yards. I also tried the 225462 but it fared no better. I tried the gamete of Hornet powders from very fast to 4227 to Lil'Gun. 4227 was my go to Hornet powder with jacketed bullets but did not do any good with those two cast bullets in 16" twists. Now in my 12 and 14" twist Hornets those two bullets are great from subsonic to 2400 fps.

I went with the 225107 and the 225428 for use in the 16" twists. I mostly used the 225428 and put a meplat on the bullet when sizing in the Lyman 450. I find Unique to be the best all around powder in the Hornets with cast bullets. I have been Working with some BlueDot under the 225428 and it's showing some promise. $227 and 5744 didn't work well for me under the lighter weight cast bullet.

verify this for yourself...but Ive seen it many times written and by trusted sources, that the use of small pistol primers can have a great improvement in the hornet.
I wonder if you can have a HP needle,thingymabobby fitted to your 55grn mould allowing a lower weight to be thrown with bonus of giving more expansion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Milky Duck

verify this for yourself...but Ive seen it many times written and by trusted sources, that the use of small pistol primers can have a great improvement in the hornet.
I wonder if you can have a HP needle,thingymabobby fitted to your 55grn mould allowing a lower weight to be thrown with bonus of giving more expansion.

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I have tested various SP and SR primers in the Hornet. Which is best depends on the type and burn rate of the powder and the operating pressure level.

Back in the day I also thought HPing to various depths with a 1/16" Forster HP tool the 225415/225 462s would help the stability problem. It didn't. Then I learned about bullet stability. Given the alloys we use in bullets it is the length of the bullet and velocity per twist rate that is the determining factor. The weight of the bullet is not a factor.

My old Lyman from 1960 lists 43gr/225438GC as ''BEST'' for 22Hornet. 4227/10.5gr/2400fps. 2400/7.5gr/1950fps. LYMAN #50 from 2017 lists a 55gr BOOLIT for 22Hornet. #225415. Accuracy load is H110/6.5GR MAX@1732fps. Also listed is 9.5gr Rx7@1785fps

Larry Gibson
Thanks for your experiences. I will keep eyes open for a 225438 or 225107. I will still be interested to give those bullets a try with Lil' Gun.

sw282
Those loads from your manuals give me good manuals to look out for and they encourage me that 4227 is still viable in 22 Hornet. Thanks.

If you've been deep-diving our threads, then you've probably seen the ordeal I went through to determine that 4227 was what my K-Hornet wanted. Between the standard and K-Hornet data in the Lyman manual, extrapolating a starting point shouldn't be hard at all - at 5.5-6 grains for a 55 grain cast bullet in the standard should get you off and running.

As to what powder will make you happy, my experience tells me to pick one from the recommendations here and hope for the best. . . all the while expecting the tiny little round to be a fussy little beach. Since you've already got the 4227, logic seems to dictate starting there.

If 20/20 hindsight could actually be deployed, I would not have bought the rifle, instead opting to play in the much more forgiving realm of something like .32-20 to .357 mag for my cast plinking workhorse.

I have an extra NOE 225107 (3) cav NIB from a group buy on this site about 7 yrs ago (=/- a few yrs). I bought some spares thinking my kids would be into casting when were older, so far no interest. I have a single cav HP and 3 cav FN.
Both the FN and HP shoot very well in my Hornets and 221 Fireball.

My only complaint is they are a pain to put checks on and size. I have large hands and large diameter fingers so may not be that difficult for others.

I just looked NOE has (5) 3 cavity molds in stock and (2) 2 cavity molds in stock. He lists them as 225-39-FN-B2.

Bigslug
Thanks for sharing your experiences. I will be reading through your posts about your K-Hornet. Thanks for the head-start on extrapolating data. I had looked at the K-Hornet data in Lyman's 4th without being sure how well it might transfer.

MarkP
I have also found the .224 gas checks to be a little finicky. Do you prefer your HP or FN bullets?