Alliant Black MZ black powder substitute any good?

I have not gotten into black powder due to a breathing problem but I decided I need to at least try it. I have two nice 43 Mausers and I read that this Alliant Black MZ is not corrosive so I was wondering if it worked as well as the other BP alternatives? I requested info from Alliant Powers about loading my 43 Mauser cartridges and until that information comes I figured I'd ask here if the stuff was OK or not, is it actually non-corrosive and does it create the smoke like the other BP alternatives?

well, I would tell you that all BP and substitutes are corrosive if left to their own devices and not tended to. I will say that Alliant Black has been discontinued and is pretty hard to find, but worth the effort. still get some smoke.. less corrosive then most... and plenty fun to shoot. a case full will do ya, and remember a slight compression is good with NO AIR between the powder and Lubed cast boolit.

Now if you want to get serious about loading them 43's with Black, there is lots to learn, but if you are just wanting to play around with it, then the above info will do.

have a great time.

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Originally Posted by Markopolo

well, I would tell you that all BP and substitutes are corrosive if left to their own devices and not tended to. I will say that Alliant Black has been discontinued and is pretty hard to find, but worth the effort. still get some smoke.. less corrosive then most... and plenty fun to shoot. a case full will do ya, and remember a slight compression is good with NO AIR between the powder and Lubed cast boolit.

Now if you want to get serious about loading them 43's with Black, there is lots to learn, but if you are just wanting to play around with it, then the above info will do.

have a great time.

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I read someplace that it was discontinued but I was wondering why? I still see their Blue MZ 50gr pellets for sale.

I'd avoid the subs if at all possible. They tend to be more corrosive and/or abrasive than real BP. I won't use a sub in any of my BP guns.

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I read someplace that it was discontinued but I was wondering why?

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Buy Here ....
https://www.sportsmans.com/shooting-...wder/p/1318670

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Originally Posted by John Boy

Buy Here ....
https://www.sportsmans.com/shooting-...wder/p/1318670

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Thanks for that -- I forgot there would be Hazmat added and the price us up there but for one jug I think I could live with it.

Update: I tried to order it and even though it showed in stock it would not let me buy it. I call them and it turns out there was only one container left and it was already claimed. I guess that was the last of the product.

Boomer , next choice Black Powder.
Powder Inc ... https://powderinc.com/

Hello 22 boomer,

Alliant did drop the Black MZ a couple years back.
The American Pioneer Powder is what everyone claimed the Black MZ was the same.
http://www.americanpioneerpowder.com/products.html
I've never tried American Pioneer, but do use the Black MZ & like it in my Conversion Revolvers.

AntiqueSledMan.

you really truly do want to use real black powder. there is nothing better than real black powder for all trad muzzleloaders and 19th century cartridge guns. fouling control and cleanup when using black powder couldn't be easier, though too many folks make mountains outta mole hills about it.

yes, it's impossible to find locally for most of us, but thankfully (so far!) mail ordering is easy.

yes, there are shipping and hazmat fees. there will be at least a few times a year to find hazmat and/or shipping fees reduced or waved.

group buys will save a bunch - check with local clubs and orgs. also, primitive events and rendezvous meets will frequently have bp vendors.

the bottom line is that with a bit of persistence, real black powder can be searched out.

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Originally Posted by 22_boomer

I have not gotten into black powder due to a breathing problem but I decided I need to at least try it. I have two nice 43 Mausers and I read that this Alliant Black MZ is not corrosive so I was wondering if it worked as well as the other BP alternatives? I requested info from Alliant Powers about loading my 43 Mauser cartridges and until that information comes I figured I'd ask here if the stuff was OK or not, is it actually non-corrosive and does it create the smoke like the other BP alternatives?

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I have actually used Black MZ and found the following to be the straight skinny in my experience.

It is really in a class of it’s own and not at all like Pyrodex. So, here is what I have found in some limited tests I have run. I have had pretty good luck with it all in all.

It worked well in any percussion gun I used it in.

It also worked well in cartridge guns but left some nasty looking deposits in the brass. Don’t know if this was anything to worry about? I got it out using my ultrasonic cleaner and citric acid crystals.

It worked more closely to 2f black with heavier projectiles (like Minie balls and .54 on up round balls). Worked great in m/l shotguns (14-10 gauge tested so far-dove hunting and clay pigeons).

Makes lots of smoke although pretty sharp smelling (not sulphuric like real black and not like Pyrodex for sure).

Seems to be non-corrosive except to possibly brass.

Leaves a greasy deposit behind but doesn’t seem to build up. All day shooting with no wiping and any additional shots slide down the bore easily shot after shot.

Doesn’t light off in flintlock guns unless I use a small 10 grain black powder charge dumped in first. Even then, there was a noticeable delay.

All in all it works great in percussion guns but they discontinued it due to lack of sales, possibly due to lots of negative reports by internet “keyboard commandos” and bad (non-aggressive) advertising by Alliant.

I suppose I could be labeled a subversive liberal commie for liking the stuff but my only regret is that I didn’t buy more of it!

I tried a pound of Black MZ for my inlines and it worked decently. Not as good as BH209 but also about 1/3 the price. When it went on clearance at Sportsmans Warehouse for $9.95/lb, I bought 9 more pounds. Over the next couple of years I said to myself "I'll never use all this up, why did I do such a foolish thing?".
Fast forward to the pandemic and component shortage and I said what the heck and tried it in .308 and 38 Special loads. It works great.

A full case with a Lee C309-170F gets me about 2000 fps and my rifle spits out smoke like a BP gun.
A full case of 16g in a 38 special with the Lee 358-158-RF gets me about 850 fps out of a 4" Ruger Service Six and smokes like an Old West gunslinger iron. Cases clean up just fine and the guns clean up just fine too. Make sure you oil up your revolver because all that gunk can slow down the cylinder. I found that out the first time and have preemptively given it a squirt of Rem Oil before the shooting session and everything ran smoothly afterwards.

Yes it uses about 3x more powder than smokeless pistol powder but it also costs about 1/3 the price so it breaks even and this is a way for me to burn through 9 pounds a little quicker.

I shoot lots of the stuff and did find that it gunks up brass pretty badly and doesn’t light off in flintlocks by itself but other than that, is great stuff. Forms clumps in the bottle but a few shakes takes care of that. Works best under heavier projectiles but shoots just fine in a .32 capgun. A lot of misleading information on the web posted by what I take to be armchair keyboard commandos. Only thing is that it’s not being made anymore. I did chronograph testing and found it lags a little behind real BP in the smaller calibers but in .54 round ball on up, it equals 2f black. Like you discovered, great in cartridge guns. Shotguns really love the stuff. I hear Jim Shockey’s Gold is the same but couldn’t tell you as I won’t pay 3x the price I paid for Black MZ.