part # 1 paper patching the ML

Since first writing this I have updated it a little. I first posted this quite a while ago but from time to time I am asked to give some info so I will post it again.
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Part 1

Here is some very poor quality pictures and a description of how to wrap a bullet; sorry I am not a pro at writing.
Before I got to this point, I poured probably 200 bullets to get 75 perfect ones. I grade them for looks and weight. Any bullets with visible flaws are melted again and every good bullet that I keep is +or - .5 grains of the target weight sometimes I get even pickier and go for +- .3 This gives me a constant product, AKA bullet, compare that to TC maxiballs or maxihunters. The lead I use is from a company called Rotometal. I get the pure lead, and it measures right at 5 to 6 BHN on my hardness tester. I used to use a bottom pour lee production pot for pouring lead. I quit using the bottom pour because the bullets didn’t come out like I wanted. I went to ladle pouring the bullets and the bullets come out a LOT better and the bullets are filled out better and the weight is more consistent.
Some guys wrap their bullets with wet paper. Most of them have undersized bullets, and are getting a bullet that fits perfectly after wrapping and are not sizing after they wrap the paper on the bullet. I would like to get a mould that would throw a bullet .446 and about 380 to 400 grains. RCBS has a mould like that but I have WAY too many moulds right now. I need to sell a couple I don’t use first.
Back to wrapping the bullets.
A lot of guys use a bullet wrapping board. I just use my fingers. In this first picture you can see the size and the shape of the paper, the paper adds about .006 to .008” to the diameter of the bullet before sizing depending on the paper.

( Update to this)
Photo bucket has messed up all my pictures. So none of these threads of mine work. I am going to post this video to go along with this thread.

https://youtu.be/RmARVEFJbr0







http://i.imgur.com/Qek3ddO.jpg

In these picture you can see the way I am starting the bullet into the wrap.

http://i.imgur.com/Z7GqLkY.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/cOgQPtr.jpg

As I roll the bullet on I keep the paper tight as I can. When the paper rolls all the way on the two ends should meet and not overlap.

http://i.imgur.com/8FTUYv8.jpg

When I get the ends to meet I start to twist the tail.

http://i.imgur.com/SawlK4S.jpg

With a hollow base bullet you can then push the tail into the base of the bullet. This picture is quite blurry sorry.

http://i.imgur.com/xbaEL0F.jpg

When I get to this point I run them through the sizer die and this is what the finished bullet looks like.

http://i.imgur.com/H1Jkg7v.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/2UMJRHF.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/QZssuRa.jpg

The Paper is a 9# 25% cotton onion skin paper. I get this paper from the web.
http://www.thepapermillstore.com/pro...productid=9304

Part #2
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...paper+patching

idahoron, Parts 1 & 2 are an excellent paper patching tutorial. Perhaps they should a be made a "sticky"?

I think you need to add a decimal place, you said "patching adds .08" to the dia"

Bill

Yes you are correct I forgot a zero. The thickness that the two wraps make depends on the paper type. I have a couple of types that range from .004 to .008 with two wraps. Ron

Ron, does the paper leave any residue in the bore after shooting? Any special cleaning requirements?

I suspect, not only does it not leave residue, it also polishes the bore.
With the Minie', the powder would expand the base. This would make the paper bear even tighter to the bore.
I have used lapping compound on my R.E.A.L.s and it really helped. I bet a very light smear of lapping compound on the patched Minie's would do the same thing.

The paper does polish the barrel. My stainless barrels look like mirrors on the inside. I use a over powder wad to help protect the bottom on of the bullet and patch. No special cleaning no lead fouling. Ron

I am going to bump this back up. Ron

are these threads better off in the paper patching forum? if so, I can move them over and make'm stickies.

Make it a sticky.
It has value indeed.

I have been watching this closely and hope it becomes a sticky but please keep it in the muzzleloading section. I think it would be better for the muzzleloader section than WELL HECK put in both!

The paper you provided the link to,

Quote:

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The Paper is a 9# 25% cotton onion skin paper. I get this paper from the web.
http://www.thepapermillstore.com/pro...productid=9304

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What thickness is it for two wraps ?

Bill

Hello ???

Bill

Sorry I didn't see this. The paper measures .002 for one .004 for two. Sory again for the late reply. Ron

Just entered the realm of fast twist muzzleloaders. Put a Green Mountain barrel on a underhammer lock got'r up and running yesterday. Using some of my cast boolits that were cast for BPCR I have been able to lube and size down to .451 and they shoot ok the best was around 2" at 100 yards which for me with iron sights isn't bad,I think that I can do better but would like to use some paperpatch. I did make some up with both wet and dry like you show but they always come out too large in diameter looks like they will come out 1.5 to 2 thousands larger than the size die which is too big to go down the barrel I was just courious as to what diameter you size to be able to slide them down the barrel with no patch damage.
Looks like a custom die in the near future and have you ever tried to size a .459 boolit down to .446 then wrap?

Sizing from .459 to .446? It's been a long time since I tried that much down sizing and if memory serves, that's a cr*p shoot these days, it didn't work very well for me. I used a push thru sizer for near pure lead bullet and it left very problematic fins around the bottom edge of the base. I was attempting to do the same thing for paper patching- just didn't work well. Dunno, may cause similar problems in a regular lubri-sizer, but in reverse?

As far as the original thread category- yes paper patching can work well for muzzleloaders. Have a rifled musket with largish bore diameter. Can either paper patch the Lee Imp Minie up to about .484 or shoot the RCBS N-S Minie .482 without patch. Both do well. The RCBS .482 w/o patch actually outshoots the PP Lee Minie by a small margin and is sooooooo much easier to deal with.

Good morning
I would HIGHLY recommend reading (if you have not) Ned Roberts great little book on the Muzzleloading Caplock Rifle.
It was very enlightning about paper patching, linen patching and using plain old bare lead boolits.
But to put it all in a nut shell... Paper patching will increase the wear factor on a barrel 10x as stated by Ned Roberts on page 48 of my copy.
I understand your goals but just so you know long term paper patching does have its drawbacks.
Mike in Peru

I have been getting good results in my 50 cal. barrels with the Lee 440gr. bullet made for the 50 S&W by running it through a custom .499 push through die, patching with 9# onionskin, lube with paste wax and run through the die again. I get a finished bullet of .500-.5005 which fits my .501 barrel just fine. Shoots lights out, and no leading ever.

I just bought a 45 cal. blank to rebarrel my 700ML, and to make bullets for that (until I get the proper mold from BACO) I tried running a regular 45-70 bullet into a Lee .452 die, then a .448 one I made. It works, using RCBS case lube or dishwashing soap for lube. Then patch it with the same 9# paper, lube with wax, and size again. Works fine, fits good. BTW, the Lee 405 HB still has a fair amount of grease grooves on it after being sized down to bore size, so could be shot naked and lubed if you like.

As for bore wear from paper, I have been shooting paper patch bullets exclusively in my 375 Taylor rifle now for around 3 years. Probably has 3000 of them down the barrel. Looking at it with a bore scope, it is shiny and smooth, but does not show any wear or firecracking at all. If I had fired that many jacketed bullets through it, I would be looking at getting a new barrel already from throat wear. I am not worried about modern steel barrels and good quality paper. Use cotton paper without whiteners and other additives in it, and I doubt you'd live long enough to wear out a chrome moly barrel from paper patch shooting.

Thanks Nobade that's what I was looking for, the boolits that I have sized down were custom molds made for BPCR and after sizing down to .451 they still hold plenty of lube. And it does leave a bit of fins around the base but I can slick that pretty easy. One thing about the greased naked boolits is they are like handling a small well greased pig, slick! Too slick kindof worried about if they were to be used in a hunting situation they might slide up the barrel if not handled properly. These things will slide down a clean barrel on their own weight which is exactly as Ned Roberts describled them in his book. The paper patch should slide down the barrel with the weight of the ramrod, I think need to get that book out and read it again.
I'll order a custom sizer and look at that Lee 405 if I could get it to give me hunting accuracy out maybe 200 it would make me a very happy camper. I'm thinking .446 as I could open it up some if needed. Also think I'll try some of the 9# onion skin from the papermill as I really don't have a great selection of suitable paper for patching that I have located locally anyway.
Thanks to everybody for helping.

I recently picked up a NEI paper patch mold for 50 cal on Ebay. It casts out at .496 and 500 grains, I patched it with the 9# onionskin, sized with a .499 die and shot some today in my Ruger 77ML. This boolit works great! I was trying some of the new Diamondback powder, and at 100 grains it was piling them on top of each other at 200 yards. My loading technique is to fire a shot, charge with powder, seat a card wad on the powder, wipe with a patch wet with windex to the card wad, then load a boolit and fire. Probably not what you'd want for hunting, but it sure shoots well on the range. I am sure a believer in paper patching for muzzleloaders by now.