I was wondering if anyone had any experience with magtech brass cases in 410. I am planning to start working up some loads with lilgun as my powder and was hoping for a place to get started?
Thanks for any help
Benjamin Robert
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I was wondering if anyone had any experience with magtech brass cases in 410. I am planning to start working up some loads with lilgun as my powder and was hoping for a place to get started?
Thanks for any help
Benjamin Robert
Not 100% sure but I believe these are for black powder only, could be wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Robert
You can load little gun, h110, 4227, 2400 with the brass shells in a 410. https://www.grantcunningham.com/2014...10-shotshells/ is a good place to start. I was also trying to find the information on shotgunworld's forum, but came up short. I used 444 Marlin brass for mine and 2400 powder. Keep safe and best of luck.
Good luck!
There is virtually no published data for smokeless in brass hulls. If you go digging in shotgun world you may find a few snippets.
Brass hulls are the exception in the shotgun world where the one rule is essentially no substitutions.
With brass hulls you have no choice. So your starting out off in the weeds and hoping to not cause bodily harm to yourself or someone else.
I have loaded both .410 and 20 ga, but because of the risk I have decided to wait to test until I have an actual need.
I will give you one tip, use a regular shotgun reloader to compress the load hard before loading shot. This will help prevent bloopers which seem to haunt brass shell reloaders. Because you don't have a standard crimp pressures may not develop enough to ensure clean burning of the powder. Compression seems to help prevent this. I would also glue the overshot card in securely.
But as I said I have not pulled the trigger on mine so take it with a grain of salt. YMMV
i have and do load 410 brass shells.. but I am a 2400 guy, so no help there..
I use a standard - pressure smokeless charge for the .44-40 with 215-grain bullet in the 2-1/2" Mag tech or US military M35 aluminum cases with .45 cal. Buffalo Arms wads and 1/2 oz. of shot. 17.5 grains of IMR4227 or 15.5 grains of Alliant #2400.
Thanks for the help,
Benjamin Robert
I load 444 Marlin shells with 11.5 of Lill Gun and Claybuster shot wads with the wad filled with #6 shot (it is less weight than I saw posted but don't recall the actual weight). Then hot glued the top
Thanks, it’s good to have a place to start.
Ben
I load brass 410 shotshells made from fireformed 303 British.
Attachment 282032
This is my procedure:
1. De-prime cases.
2. Clean cases with wet tumbler.
3. Prime cases with large pistol primers.
4. Weigh powder (I'm using 2400) and charge case, then firmly seat over powder wad (0.135" thick non-corrugated cardboard x 7/16" dia.)
5. Seat felt filler wad(s) (Felt totals 0.375" thick.)
6. Seat my home made plastic shot capsules firmly into the case.
8. Lubricate case and full length resize loaded case with 410 CH4D FL Sizing die. (This causes the shot capsule to be held tightly inside the case.)
9. Wipe off lubricant, and they are now they are ready to shoot.
Shot Capsules: I make the shot capsules from 4 liter plastic milk jugs by cutting the four face panels into 1-5/16" wide strips. I place the piece of plastic between the jaws of a home made clamp and run a razor knife down the side.
Attachment 282033
Then I cut these strips to as length of 2" with a cutter tool a pictured below.
Attachment 282034
Next I roll this rectangular piece of plastic around the steel rod tool and slide a brass collar over it, centered, to hold the plastic in place. (The collar is 1-1/4" long and made from an expanded section of a defective 303-410 case.)
Attachment 282035
Then use a microtorch to heat one end of the plastic that extends beyond the brass collar for a few seconds rotating it until it turns transparent. (It doesn't matter if it catches fire.) Then fold it inwards with a small flat stick. Now quickly retract the capsule into the brass collar a bit and then press the whole assembly down firmly onto a steel plate where it will solidify in about 2 seconds. This forms one end of the shot capsule.
Attachment 282036
Attachment 282037
Then insert and center the capsule in a shorter brass collar (7/8" long) and pour in 1/2 oz. of lead shot. On top of the shot place a 3/8" dia. disc made from the same plastic, and compress the shot load with the steel rod tool. Now postion the brass collar so it just covers the plastic over shot wad, and then heat the protruding plastic. Fold it inwards then quickly retract the shot capsule into the brass collar a bit and press the whole assembly down onto a steel plate as before. Now slide off the brass collar and it's all done.
Attachment 282038
Wow that’s pretty comprehensive Go West.
I just made a deprime tool and priming tool like a Lee loader.
I use the Magtec cases.
They use the large pistol primers.
Some of mine are a sloppy fit straight from the box.
A dabb of nail polish seems to keep them seated.
I use the 2400 universal powder load. 12.5 grns but don’t quote me you will have to look it up.
I use cardboard wads from drink coasters on top of powder.
I use a crunched up piece of bake proof paper tamped down on top of them for a compression part of the wad section.
Followed by a hard cardboard wad.
On top of this I use either a piece of firm plastic but most often card board cut from primer packets.
It is a rectangle and when rolled around the pusher rod it forms a cylinder like the above.
I just fold the ends over a bit and push hard on a table top to form the wad.
The wad underneath pushes it out when shot.
I fill up the wad with me homemade swan shot and place a thin hard paper wad over the ends of the shot tube and run nail polish around that which is just under the brass case mouth.
Once you have your shot cup/lead length figured out you just push the compressible bunched up wax proof paper column down to a mark on your loading rod.
I have shot fling clays at 35 yards with them no worries.
For a more deadly cut type cartridge you can modify the shot wad some so it doesn’t open till it hits smomething.
The rectangle of thin hard card or plastic helps deformation of the shot and unfurls near the muzzle.
If you crack open a Winchester 3" shell they use the same set up but with a lot more thicker wads underneath.
I’ve only fire my shells in their specific chambers and they haven’t needed any sizing....yet anyway.
Impressive! It sounds like your method works very well. My cases would be too short to load without a shot capsule, unless I left out the felt cushion wads. When I tried that the pattern started to open up. I'm also using my 410 for clays (Akkar Churchill 536). This is the pattern I get, and the remains of several shot capsules I picked up off the ground after firing.Quote:
I have shot fling clays at 35 yards with them no worries.
Attachment 282057 Attachment 282058
You only need a drink coaster wad or two for a over powder wad.
A bit for crumbled oven proof paper and a hard wad for the base of the shot wad.
If you slice down the sides of your wad and just glue the thin wad on top instead of melting it on; it will open up better.
1350 fps does nothing but blow patterns.
The old timers believed in a slow push with reasonable speed the key as you have less deformation and the pellets only go whizzing off more and shed velocity quicker than a gentler ride.
The thin long column of shot in the 410 needs all the help it can get in that regard.
Yes you are wrong. Brass is much stronger than paper or plastic hulls.Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkenhunter50
I wish they made 3 inch brass shells myself. I make mine from 9.3x74r cases I bought at an auction . they once formed are forever shells. Some have boxer prime . The others were Berdan that I converted to 209 shot shell primers.
The 7.63x74r cases are small at the base and even then the do not expand out with multiple loadings.
My 303 British cases converted to 410 are also a bit under diameter at the base. After I fireform them I use a home made expander plug (in a 458 Win Mag expander die) to expand the base area. Because the inside of the case tapers towards the base, they end up a little oversize at the bottom. Therefore, afterwards I run them through my CH4D full length resizing die (specially made for brass 410 cases) to finish up to factory specs.Quote:
The 7.63x74r cases are small at the base and even then the do not expand out with multiple loadings.
Attachment 282252
Gentlemen,
As the original poster I wanted to update on my results.
Magtech 410 brass
large pistol primer
11 grains of lilgun powder
Over powder card
Fiber cushion
.6 oz of #6 shot
Overshot card
Waterglass seal
This seemed to work really good. I was shooting at 25 yards, which seemed maximum range. I was loosing pattern. Would using some kind of a shot cup help hold my pattern tighter at this range. Is the fact that I am not using a shot cup causing some pattern loss??
Ben
It may well be. I would suggest trying a thin plastic wrap around inside the case to encircle the shot before you pour the shot in. That would be a simple experiment to see if it improves your patterns. You could cut these from old quart milk or water jugs. I'd be interested in hearing your results.Quote:
Is the fact that I am not using a shot cup causing some pattern loss??
I would try an Nitro over powder card, a mylar wrap, a fiber cushion wad then your payload and overshot card. The lead shot scrubbing on the barrel walls is making flat spots on the shot causing flyers.
I just tried a Nitro wad, Rem SP410 wad and an overshot card with waterglass seal. Need to chrony the load.