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Is there any tool to put a crimp grove on a hard cast bullet? The cast bullets I have/buy where the crimp groove is, are too high, and I have to seat bullet deeper in case, like 1.60in, I want to seat bullets at 1.75in to 1.76in, that my cylinder on my 45 colt blackhawk will take.
I would like to cut the groove, so as to not distort bullet. Don't want bullet setout to happen under recoil. 340g@ 1100 fps.
Check out 'cannelure tools'.There's 2-3 companies that make them.
They're made for j-words, but may be what you're looking for.
this is where a lee collet style factory crimp die can come in handy. in order for the 432640 to chamber in 444 marlin it has to be seated deep and the Lee FC die keeps it in place
Or you can taper crimp them and avoid the above
Taper crimp vs. 340gr boolit? I don't think so... Maybe in a single shot but not a revolver.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maven
I mod my Lee collet crimp die to make the crimp band narrow, and lower it down to the case mouth, it will crimp effectively where there is no groove or cannelure. There will be NO boolit movement, and full house charges of H110 and 2400 seem to love the added resistance this crimp provides, as the chrony shows a low ES, 1180 - 1200fps.
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...=1#post2239315
Interesting. I bought a lfc in 45 colt, but couldn't get results like your, bullets I want to load long are the 340g montana WFN-GC .452 .
The meplet to Crimp grove is around .385. for me to load long at 1.75-1.76 oal, 1.76 - 1.27 = 4.9in. the next lube grove (there are two lube groves) is like .530 down. so using only one lube grove, and using the top one to crimp, I'd have to cut brass down to like 1.21 in. Your idea seems much better than roll crimping on top lube grove. taper crimping on that same grove would allow me to keep brass at 1.27-1.28 stock length.
How do you come up with these great ideas?
Would you be interested in modding my crimp die?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winger Ed.
Not sure what j-word means. sorry. Is this a type of bullet?
Forget post, I looked it up.. oh boy. ha
As you resize your brass, it stretches. Maybe you can just trim your cases to length?
The term "Jacketed bullets" is sorta frowned on in a cast boolits forum, so as to offend no one many just say "J bullets". On the same vein as "boolits" vs "bullets". I joined castboolits in about 2007 after lurking for a year or so and the term was in use back then so I don't know when/where it originated...
I assume this Q is directed at me, yes I can mod it send me a PM and I will give you the details..Quote:
Originally Posted by scottyd2506
I came up with that because the collet crimps a band approximately 1/8" wide, half on the case mouth and half on the boolit in front of the case. This is where we DON'T want any reduction in diameter so the forward half of the crimp band is useless in this respect. I take the crimp band down to .045" - .050" wide, and then shorten the skirt of the collet so it brings the crimp band down on the case so it crimps a tiny bit below the case mouth. I would need the die and a measurement from the top of the shell holder to the case mouth to accurately place the crimp band where it belongs.
Attachment 299938
This photo shows a 45 Colt round assembled with a relatively hard cast boolit but I found it worked the best using the bottom crimp groove. This may give a shorter COA than your original post describes, but it works great, AND this COA is what is used in the published load data for 30kpsi Ruger Only loads.
Attachment 299939
The harder the alloy, the less crimp will be applied as the hard alloy is much more resistant to crimping the side of the boolit. To be honest, an alloy like 50/50+2% with soft lube takes to Ruger rifling like a duck to water. It works perfectly in all the Ruger 44 and 45 caliber revolvers. I never have to clean mine, haven't cleaned them in years, and if I did run a patch through the barrels, all it would show is dark gray/blackish powder and lube residue which I prefer to be left in the barrel as it "seasons" the barrel by providing some lube capability to the front half of the boolit.
Does the crimp need to go in a lube grove, or in between? Where I want to have a roll crimp, is almost always between the crimp grove and top lube grove.Quote:
Originally Posted by DougGuy
So I'm guessing the taper crimp will either be on/in the lube grove or close. (I wouldn't do this if a bullet had only one lube grove. But that is another story.)
I recon it best to send a bullet or two and brass or loaded dummy round at the oal I want, so you can fit it correctly.
I use the lee shell holder that came with my 4 set 45 colt dies. That measurement is 1.148 inch from case mouth to top of shell holder on 1.272 inch brass (new starline 45 colt).
Read again please, all I need is the die and the measurement shown.Quote:
Originally Posted by scottyd2506
This will crimp anywhere you seat the boolit, crimp groove or not. Softer alloys will respond better to the crimp than hard alloys simply because the hard alloy is just that, hard.
1.148 inchQuote:
Originally Posted by DougGuy
Update.
I took my Lee crimp die apart, and ground down the sleve like DougGuy did.
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...=1#post2239315
This is his idea, this measurements worked great on HIS bullets, but on mine, the taper crimp was right on edge of lube grove at 1.75-1.76 in oal round with 340g Montana. trying to crimp at the depth squeezed enough to pop into the lube grove, resulting in a 1.79 oal..., So I ground the bottom of the die sleeve more. Also have to grind bottom of die body some.
How I did this wo uneven surface around die and sleeve?
I used a grinder wheel, put collet sleeve in a drill chuck, spun drill. so it would grind even, 60 grit, 120 ,500 grit., also I have to grind the bottom of die body a little using same method.
if you look at the photos post LINK above (DougGuy) where brass is sticking out the top, mine sticks out a little more, .070 .
With 1.272 oal brass. a top of shell holder to top of brass measurement is 1.148. sleeve measures 1.076in, die body 2.120in.
I prob have .020-.030 more ground off the top of sleeve than DougGuy's sleeve, I rounded the outside edge enough where operation is smooth.
My crimp band is lower down the case mouth. I loaded some dummy round, played around with light tapping in bullet pull hammer, they stay put. much better than before.
I was going to send my die to DougGuy, but there was so much trial and error. back & forth to mill more off.
With the 0.70 casemouth sticking out of sleeve., it's a good start, anyone wanting to buy 340g montana, wanting to load long, I can get DougGuy some extra work. These dies are taylor made for the 340g Montana .452 cast. made to crimp in the top lube grove, I'll add 50/50 moly/beeswax lube to bottom.
Rounds work great at 1.75 oal (we will see what they do under recoil.). Loading long like this you can achieve more power, and most important, less pressure on your gun per your loads in a blackhawk. Majority of my shooting will be coyboy type loads. but if ever I go to griz country, the 340's at 1200 fps and 29k psi might seem overkill to some, but it's not a 454 either.
When my cylinder gets done next week or so, the real test will show itself.
So far so good, taper crimp works well, loading rounded at 1.75 oal.
Ruger 45 Colt Blackhawk 7.5in bbl, .4525 thraoted cylinder.
A bunch of coyboy loads, and to test cylinder bullet pull.
Ruger Blackhawk (redhawk) only load
24.0g H110 1.75 oal cci-300, 340 gr WFN Montana 29k psi (quickload)
1230 fps
1247 fps
1267 fps
25.0g mp-300 1.75 oal cci-300, 340 gr WFN Montana 28k psi (quickload)
1224 fps
1216 fps
1201 fps
1233 fps
Heavy recoil loads, not painful, but will develop a flinch, if you don't do your part.
Bullets stayed in place well.