.38 S&W is prudent gunsmith’s choice to restore antique rook rifles.

I had to bring this old thread up. Because I really like it.
In the last couple years, I've been accumulating stuff. Reloading components, and a few rifles. Some for parts, one ready to go.
Soon I'll post some pictures.
But I finally found a couple of good Hopkins and Allen singles of the 9 series. One in 38 S&W, one in 32 Long Rimfire. They need some work, but the barrels are good. My previous 32's, the barrels were too far gone. This 32 is only getting a longer block link, make it centerfire. Lastly, I found a good mini Martini in 380 Long. This one to go along with the components I've gathered for my 1896 Colt Double Action in 38 Long Colt.
I'm really looking forward to this.
As fall is coming, I will have some time to get some of this stuff rolling. Be starting with a lot of bore cleaning of the H&A's, then slugging them. I believe the Martini should only need a cleaning, probably slug it also to make sure the boolits I have will be ok.

You found a "9xx" Hopkins & Allen in .38 centerfire? I would have said they were only made for rimfire. Pics please. That's a trophy find.

Moving the breechblock to make a centerfire interferes with the motion of the extractor when the action is opened. My 932 with the lengthened link needs a tool or a very strong fingernail to remove the spent case, because the rim barely clears the chamber. I wish I'd modified a breechblock instead. Not that I have spare breechblocks just lying around.

I did. As said, it needs work. But the barrel looks to be ok with some cleaning. Wood is ok, receiver guts need some work and parts. For the research I've done, it should be the 938 model, 38 S&W. Though I'm not sure I saw that on the gun, just 38 stamped on the top of the barrel. The block is positioned for centerfire.
For the problem you speak of, the rimfire block I'd used before, from another gun of mine (932), I put it in the mill and machined a bit off the top. Not to make it square, but take some of it away to clear extractors.
Long story, I was trying to make a rifle the best I could out of parts I had, and thought worked the best. The skinny 9oclock one didn't work very good at all. And a 6oclock extractor won't clear if converted to centerfire. Mind you these pieces that are modified come from pretty spent rifles I've got my hands on for parts. That M&H 932 I showed a few months back was a reblued job, but the barrel was about a smooth bore. It is being set aside for a maybe liner job. I doubt I will mess with it otherwise because of the brand name.
As it goes, I will get some pics on here sometime next week. And later the mini martini when it arrives.

I have a H&A small action chambered in 32-20. Marked Murdock.

Did some catalog reading this morning. In one of the H&A reprints I got from Cornell Publishing -(plug, plug)- it does indeed show the 938 as using the centerfire .38 S&W cartridge. Neat.

Came across a Stevens 0.410 12mm single shot. It said 3" shells I think.
Couldn’t find a model. Seemed well covered in patina but the trigger and hammer seemed fine.
It has a take down screw at the pivot point and was tight. Probably because it had a 2 or three threads extending past the action.
It was very skinny for a 410 action and sort of deeper than normal very small fore end and long barrell.
The hammer obscured the barrel when in the fired position.
Had a thumb shotgun type lever on the tang to open it.
I was wondering if this could be a candidate for a lettuce protector.
I was wondering if it would be safe to fire 3" 410 shells in it or formed brass ones as well.
Never seen one before.

At first I thought you might have a Model 101, but the shotgun style action-opening lever defeats that idea. Not at all savvy about Stevens shotguns, so I won't comment further until I do some reading. If it's marked for 3" shells I suppose they would be OK.

I'd be cautious with the Stevens .410/12mm. reason is the 3" .410 didn't come out until 1933 with the Winchester Model 42. It is very simple for just about anyone to run a 3" chamber reamer into a break action gun, whether it should be done or not.

On another note, my Model 101 is now destined to become a .25 ACP rifle, thanks to a rifle length liner and a purchase of about a quart of bullets (>2,100). Debating how long to make the barrel right now.

Robert

Well, Stevens(Savage) is still making single-barrel, breakopen, hammer-fired .410s, so it's entirely possible that the OP's was made after 1933.

I think it is pretty old.
I was wondering if it was reamed out or not.
I will contact the seller and maybe they can send me some pictures.
Thanks for the effort and help.

@Mk42gunner: I'd keep it to the legal minimum length. That tiny cartridge won't hold much powder, and a short barrel will be much quicker for snap shots in the woods. Only thing you lose is sight radius.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by uscra112

@Mk42gunner: I'd keep it to the legal minimum length. That tiny cartridge won't hold much powder, and a short barrel will be much quicker for snap shots in the woods. Only thing you lose is sight radius.

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With a barrel shorter than 20 inches report is very MUCH louder.

In 20 inch barrel report is like standard velocity .22 LR.

In barrel longer than 24 inches it's hardly louder than an air rifle. No "can" is needed.

240-grain flat-nosed bullet at 720 fps with 3 grains of AutoComp is well stabilized in 10-inch twist 9mm barrel and drills through EIGHT gallon water jugs like a laser with no tumbling.

My rifle with 20-inch barrel is 34-1/2 inches overall and weighs 4.5 pounds.

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What's your load for that .25 ACP rifle, Outpost?

Oh, you're still talking about the .38 S&W. I was responding the Mk42gunner's plan for a .25ACP barrel on a Stevens 101 action.

FWIW I've got a 20" .25 Stevens barrel on a 101 frame, and it's about the same noise as a .22 SV, when loaded to the same MV. Load is 1.7 of Bullseye with a 65 grain bullet, using crunched-down Hornet brass.

I think I'm going to install the liner and check the balance before deciding. The .44 barrel is ~26" long same as the liner (within ¼"). Adding a 7/16 tube with a .251" hole through it will change the balance of the gun, how much I don't know.

I do like longer barrels as a general trend, so maybe leave it full length? Quieter is better too.

Still debating a 35-40 grain boolit or going the heavy route with a something around 65 grains. I basically want a .25 for .22 LR jobs. Probably try both and go with the one that shoots best.

Robert

I took some pics and took the gun all apart. The receiver is in tough shape, as the mortise for the block is waaaay out. The block measures the same as any, but something has gone on here.
The block is a true centerfire block, the pin is up a little higher in it than the rimfire model. But the barrel cleaned up ok. Have to slug soon, but just a quick caliper measurement, I'm assuming it will be around .362. And as for the chamber, it seems big. It measures about .008 over normal of around .386.
It would not chamber my wadcutter load the way I do it, being the same overall length of a factory round. It's about maybe .060 short of fully chambering.
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So, there's going to be some investigating as to making this one a nice shooter. Hoping it turns out ok.

Key question is: What is headspace? That receiver is just malleable iron - yield point no better than mild steel. Could the receiver be stretched?

It maybe. It seems large in every part of the mortise. I will not use it.
I have already put the parts in another six oclock extractor receiver. Though it needs an extractor, which I will make. The gun did not have one in it. I tried one from a 32, but hence too long because of the rim diameter difference. The barrel cleaned up pretty good, about as good as one could expect.
As far as headspace, the rim machined area is good. The rounds fit flush, and it's block in the "other" receiver is tight. Though that chamber diameter has me a little concerned. Will ahve to try and see what a fired case looks like.
I don't want to swing away from Outposts original topic, but I am hoping to be able to have this rifle running soon. An extractor and slugging will be in order and then to load rounds to try.

I just started working on a similar project - a #2 Remington rolling block, originally 38 rimfire. I've swapped in a centerfire block and been shooting what is essentially .38 Colt. But previous owners shot a lot of 38 short rimfires in it, resulting in pitting at the front of the chamber. This makes it really hard to extract the 38 Colt brass. I have to knock them out with a rod. So, I made up some .38 Short Colt brass and it extracts fine. The bore is worn and pitted ahead of the chamber, but pretty good further down to the muzzle. I've been using Old West's 150gr heel bullets that run about .375" OD. Barrel groove size is .371". They shot pretty well with the longer case, but now I'm going to use the short case. Today, I tried 9.5gr of Reloader 7 in the short case. That is near a full case. It gave an average of 589fps out of the 26" barrel. I'd like to get up around 750-800 fps max.

Thoughts on powders/load to start with?

Well, 1680 is next up my speed ladder from RL7, but not by a lot. Then 4227.

I'd probably be trying 2400 or Blue Dot, about 4-5 grains to start. Mostly because I've got plenty of both in stock, and very little if any 4227.

I'm only guesstimating. My boilerplate Quickload model thinks your RL7 load is 143% of case capacity even with your heeled bullet.

I have plenty of 4227 and 2400. For reference, these cases are .755" long, the heel goes in .150". I've used 2400 in other vintage small cases. It generally works well, despite leaving a fair amount of unburned powder. I haven't done much with 4227.

Its odd that your quickload model for RL7 is so out of whack. Not sure what to make of that.