Bullets for reduced loads in 30 30 and 22 Hornet...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ElCheapo

Just nosing around on the forum a bit, seems some folks don't like reduced loads with ball powders. I like ball powders because they work great in a powder measure. Being a shotgun nut, I also have goodly amounts of Red Dot, Green Dot and Herco on hand to use but they sure don't flow through a measure as consistently as Accurate #2 or #9!

---

I don’t think ball powders behave themselves in reduced loadings.


Bullseye has been my go to powder for this work but have used others as well.

I’d stick with your red dot.
Scoop and tickle up if needed.
I have a habit of having my cases upside down in the holder then only tipping it up to pour powder in and then seat a bullet.
Pick up next case.
If in doubt or distracted tip it over and see if it’s empty.
It will be after that and then you know for sure.
No double charges here.

Good advise barrabruce.

The 311-165 Ranch Dog shoots well in a Savage from 900-2200 fps both PB and checked . NOE makes 2,3,4,5 cavity moulds and in even count moulds you can have half GC , half PB . (1+1,2+2)

I have a 225-37 RNFP PB 5 cavity that needs a home .
I can't load the 222/223 down far enough to make it useful for me .

How does the 30-30 generally do on deer with cast bullets?

During the Obama .22 ammo famine, I had good success loading down both the Lyman 225438 and Lee C225-55 for my CZ527 Hornet. Pushing boolits maybe a bit faster than 1300-1400, but less than 2000. I used gas checks, but you probably won't need to. I don't have access to my logbook now, but I'm sure some of the loads used Unique, and maybe Bullseye. I didn't have to fiddle around as the initial experimental loads worked fine, with everything shooting to the same point of impact. I suspect the CZ .22 Hornet is very tolerant to downloading cast boolits, so you won't be disappointed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by willicd76

How does the 30-30 generally do on deer with cast bullets?

---

Very few differences between cast and jacketed in the 150-195 gr class when loaded to similar levels.

Just starting the process of removing the copper fouling from my 22 hornet is bringing back memories. Killed my biggest groundhogs with this rifle, all in the rolling hills and apple orchards of Adams county Pa. Couple of them were 16 lbs! It doesn't ring my ears and does the job to 225+ yards with a 35 grain Hornady V-max. Lack of any recoil lets me watch the bullets hit in the scope. Just a great rifle!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dverna

Just a reminder...you will need to clean out the copper fouling out to get the beat accuracy with cast bullets.

The Hornet will be a challenge.

---

Took about 4 days of soaking time, but I think I got all the copper fouling out. I would wet a patch with Shooter's Choice and run it through the bore, then let it soak for hours, or maybe overnight. After several days of that treatment, patches are coming out clean (no green). Should be good to go. Next I'll slug the barrel at both ends and see what I'm dealing with. If the muzzle is looser than the chamber end I'll have to lap it. Definitely want the muzzle to be the tightest fit.

Checked both the breech and the muzzle of the CZ 527 Hornet. Gun is slightly tighter at the muzzle, which is surprising. Usually when manufacturers tighten the barrel into the action there is some thread crush, resulting in a tighter bore just in front of the chamber. I guess all the hot jacketed rounds I fired at groundhogs eroded this constriction. I will still run about 10 or 15 lap rounds through this gun just to make sure it's super smooth, then I'll polish it by hand w/lapping compound and finish it off with some S&W friction block applied on a clean cloth patch. Now I just have to wait for my mold to arrive and I can get started!

I'm trying RCBS-30-180-FN in 30-30. A bit heavy, but should be a good shooter...

Stick with your normal 30-30 gas checked bullet, and try 10-15 grains of unique... what fun.
But don't kid yourself... that 170-ish grain bullet at 1100+/- fps is also a quiet pig killer.
Check old lyman #3 as a guide for load levels.

My light load in 30-30 is the Lee 170gr. fngc, pc'd, without the gas check. 5.5 grs Tight Group at about +/- 1190fps. Shoots good to about 75 yds. Past that I think it goes sub sonic and the groups begin to open up. Surprised no one has linked the GMDR site yet. It's where I started. I'll be playing with Blue Dot next since I'm buying some to load round balls and heavy buck in my 20ga.

http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

Tested my handloads with the Lyman 311041 yesterday. My initial loading was giving me velocities in the neighborhood of 1850 fps, so I increased the powder charge slightly. Yesterday my average velocity was 2265 fps, with a noticeable but not uncomfortable increase in recoil. No leading was noted at this velocity level, thanks to a smooth barrel and gas checks doing their job. I'm going to decrease the powder charge in an attempt to get the velocity right at 2200 fps, and my 15 BHN bullets should exhibit some expansion in game at this speed. Accuracy seems to be the same, staying right around 1 1/2 inches for 5 shots at 100 yards. Scope is an old 1-4x Leupold Vari-x II. I'm thinking I should have no trouble getting this bullet to shoot well at 1100 to 1200 fps, and there should be no need for a gas check at that velocity.

I was able to find a good deal on a Lyman 311008 mold. It's a 115 grain FN PB. Should be good for light loads around 1200-1300 fps in my 30 30. Curious thing is the bullet has 2 lube grooves and no crimp groove. So the question is, do I fill both grooves with lube and crimp on the front driving band? Or just fill the rear groove and crimp in the front groove? Anybody having experience with this bullet please chime in!

After a couple responses advising me to fill both lube grooves and crimp on the front driving band that's what I did. 6 grains of Red Dot gave me an average of 1313 fps. Of course, I was using a powder measure and velocities ranged from a high of 1372 to a low of 1263. This is why I like ball powder! If I keep using Red Dot I'm gonna have to find a funnel that fits into a 30 30 case so I can weigh the powder on the scale and then dump it in the case. I don't like doing this 'cause it's slow, but I don't like inconsistent velocity either. Anyway, I tried several different seating depths and found one that the gun liked, yielding groups under 1/2 inch at 50 yards. This is plenty good enough for small game. I did try 10 grains of AA #9 and that gave me 1391 fps. I think I'll try 7 grains of Red Dot next. This should give me around 1550 fps, and that nice big meplat will really thump whatever I shoot with it. Plus hopefully it will hit close to where my full power loads are zeroed at. Cheers!

I think a little more red dot might even out the velocities some. I'll take a look at QL when I get home.

ElCheapo - GONRA sez ball powders will typically be more difficult to ignite than extruded powders.
"Ball Power Issues" are more likely to show up in lower pressure loads which usually are NOT a good idea.
But if they verk for ya'll - use 'em! (Wot the hell?)

My understanding is that Ball Powder COATINGS aim to adjust the burn rate.
(Extruded powders accomplish this thru appropriate POWDER GRAIN GEOMETRY.)
Coating makes Ball Powders more difficult to ignite.

I had to use 311359, a GC 115 grain bullet.

6 grains of RedDot and 115grains should be getting you around 15K PSI which is enough to get an even burn... so I suspect much of the variation is the volume based measurement. I know, RD can be a pain to measure in small amounts.

The pressure equivalent of "the load" (13 grains in '06 around 30K PSI) for 30/30, is 10 grains RD for 115 cast, 8.5grains of RD for 311041.

Have you considered Bullseye? Much easier to measure, and lower pressure than Red Dot grain for grain (in the 6-7 grain range, anyway.)

I have a bunch of Red Dot already. Might as well use it up.

7 grains of Red Dot gave me an average velocity of 1413 fps. Accuracy still on point with no leading. I don't really need to push it any faster for small game or varmints (groundhogs) to 100+ yards. I'm curious as to how fast I could drive this bullet before leading occurs, and at what speed it would be a reliable killer of hogs to 100 yards or so? I may get the chance to try it out on some Florida piggies if I play my cards right.