Making .43 Spanish Brass from Starline 50-110 Brass

Right now, for reasons I don't fully understand, Brass is as scarce as "Hen's Teeth" !

Buffalo Arms in Idaho has sold .43 Spanish Brass, but is the Proverbially "Out
of Stock" ! So is everywhere else I can find. Production must be at a standstill.....

Looking at the Buffalo Arms web site, one sees that the Brass they were selling was made
from 50-110 Starline ! Nice that they let us know that bit of information !
Here is what is/was on BA's web page......
https://i.postimg.cc/3R7Zg2nk/BA-43-...ine-50-110.jpg

Being a resourceful fellow, I just recently obtained 40 Starline 50-110 cases for $1.73 each.
I found a LEE .43 Spanish Two Die Set AND a used Lyman 439186 Estate Sale Mold (e-bay) -
370 grain bullet.

Note .43 Spanish ≠ .43 Egyptian !

So - here is what I came up with all by my lonesome. In the form of TWO pictures, it is
summarized. If I can do it - YOU can do it. I did use a Lathe for some minor trimming,
but you might be able to use an Electric Drill or a Drill Press and a FILE. Have fun ! I am....

Here is what each portion looks like as you do them -
https://i.postimg.cc/ZRV6p2WQ/The-Process.jpg

BTW - The 50-110 is too wide to enter the Lee .43 Spanish Die, so that is the reason that I
pushed it into an 8mm LEBEL die first - to reduce the top end diameter enough to allow the
unformed Case to even go into the LEE .43 Spanish !

When all was done and a case loaded up - it wouldn't go into battery ! Figured out that the
case neck metal was too thick - that is why the neck is filed down (on the lathe) from about
16 thousandths to 9 or 10 thousandths. NOW it fits the rifle.

Here is the "Lathe" work, but you could probably do with a Drill (Press) ......(?)
https://i.postimg.cc/90kTN9tt/Turnin...-the-Bulge.jpg

This took about 30 minutes for each Case. But - I am 78 and 'retired' from all the Bullkrud
job duties, so I am enjoying the "Hobby Work" so to say. Love to know just how the Buffalo Arms
"Jobber" is making theirs. Hydraulics ? If you are out there - let me know ! I'll keep your secret....

Have not shot any off yet - just started this project two days ago. Will "FireForm" the Brass at the
Local Rifle Range with 12 gr of Trail Boss. I shoot reduced loads in old BP rifles for obvious reasons.
These old Remington Rollers were made strong - Nitrocellulose Gun Powder had just come into being
(Paul M. E. Vieillea - Frenchman - Wikipedia) about that time, so they anticipated it, so to say.

DoctorBill

My guess is they order a large quantitie of 50-100 from Star-line with a .513 base dia. I used their 44-77 for making 9.5X47R because I needed thicker neck walls. The 44-90-2.43I bought used the same 50-100 for donor brass.
Bill

Back in the dark ages, when I bought .43 Spanish from Buffalo Arms, it was formed from .348 Win. I think you are right in that they must use a hydraulic press for the forming. Either that or someone there has forearms that make Popeye look like a stick figure.

Hydraulic power is about the only way to easily roll the rim forward for proper headspacing.

Robert

Nice work! Yes. Sometimes we have to get creative making useable brass. I've made quite a few different cases on the lathe . Having a lathe is a big plus for this kind of work.

My only suggestion pertains to thinning the neck. Using a file is pretty crude and leaves a very rough finish. What I do is machine a hollow mandrel to press into the case mouth. Then the mandrel is held in a collet or chuck and the neck is thinned with a lathe bit. This is very precise and leaves a better finish.

Here is a short video showing how I do it:
https://youtu.be/iVzb4WopeAM

Sorry I have to ask, even with a lower pressure round being used is it not a bad idea to anneal case head area?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gtek

Sorry I have to ask, even with a lower pressure round being used is it not a bad idea to anneal case head area?

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We shall see. But, you know....Brass hardens back up in a few days.
Do you suppose they formed the Brass originally from heated Brass at the factory ?
It was melted at some point.

I considered the same thing myself. I have had annealed Brass get as hard as originally in a day or so !

DoctorBill

You annealed the base and turned it down .027"? Yikes. This'll be interesting.

I’ve turned .348s into .44-77s (there’s a thread on it around here somewhere).

I didn’t anneal the case head but I did turn down the base just as Dr. Bill has done.

Seemed like the smoothest junction between the turned-down section and the rest of the case wall came with W-W Super cases. R-P, Super-X and Super Speed cases all had more or less of a ring showing down the wall. However, only one has cracked in four loadings, and that was a W-W Super.

I only use black powder. I would worry about primer pockets expanding with annealed case heads, but it might not happen at black powder pressures. I did, of course, give the necks, shoulders and upper bodies of the cases a good anneal before forming.

I cracked my expensive CH-4D sizing die forming the cases on my loading press, and had to replace it at a fearsome cost. However, I threaded a heat-expanded plate over the crack at the bottom of the die, and now use it, with my Harbor Freight hydraulic press, for all forming operations. Waste not, want not.

It’s good to know how to make unusual cases when necessary. Today’s shortages illustrate the folly of assuming they’re at the store or On Line whenever we want some.

Is that rim going to work? I've got a few dozen from Buffalo but from what I've read about all the forming brass needed the rims turned down

Don’t know about the .50-110; All I’ve done are .348s. It’s the bases that need turning down, ahead of the rim, the rims themselves are actually a little small. But they catch the extractor on my Shiloh Sharps just fine. Haven’t done any .43 Spanish for the Peabody, since I have 40 or so Bertram cases left of that brass.

Actually, as someone else observed somewhere, the reformed .348 rims fit more easily into standard loading blocks than the wider “authentic” ones. Those tend to kind of tilt and wedge. Pretty unhandy with a full case of black powder.

You brought up a point I had forgotten about regarding the reformed .348 to .43 Spanish brass. I don't think they fit the standard RCBS case holder block very well, I seem to remember making one of wood with the help of a forstner bit.

For anyone else contemplating making case blocks from wood, a Forstner type bit drills a much cleaner hole than a spade bit.

Robert

I have been successfully converting 348 Winchester and 338 Win Mag cases to 43 Spanish, and have one question of you folks that are also converting cases to 43 Spanish. After turning the base diameter on my lathe, I have been polishing them with copper pipe cleaning strips, leaving the brass cases a little rough looking. How are you guys polishing the brass to finish it up like a new, smooth case?

I polish things sometimes in lathe with a pile of paper towels covering bed and 320 or 600 wet paper or Scotchbrite and a squirt bottle with water.

The reformed .43 Spanish brass was in stock and I snagged a bag of it from BA and it is indeed formed from .50-100 Starline brass. There are no marks that look like the brass was cut down anywhere except perhaps the rim which is very bright and smooth on the outer circumference so the Hydraulic forming guess is as good as any. Aside from making new brass (to sell at $7-8 per case) refoming other brass for some of these cartridges is old hat from a few companies and I suspect that some of the tooling will work on multiple cartridges.

Do a search for what can 43 Spanish be made from, there is a description of how to make it using belted magnum cases.

I've done it and it works, c-clip in extractor groove to act as a rim. Maybe less lathe time than the 50-110 brass and your are using MUCH less expensive brass.

You just have to pay attention to c-clip orientation in relation to the extractor when loading the rifle.

I'd copy the link but this silly little tablet won't let me like I can do on a real computer.

Finally remembered to post the thread using a real computer:

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...t=form+spanish

7mm Mag is plentiful and cheap/free around here on the rifle ranges. That's one of the calibers I've used.

Unfortunately for me I now use 7mm Mag for both 7x61 S&H and 280 Ross AND the 43 Spanish. Brass that I sent to the scrap can half a dozen years ago I could use back again.

I apparently was not quite a good enough pack rat.

I have .42 Russian Berdan cases from BA that were made from both .348 Win and 50-110 brass. Great cases, I'd guess they're hydraulically formed.
Btw, prior to getting the BA brass, I would fire-form Bertram .43 Spanish brass to .42 Berdan, the case head size and length is similar, the shoulder on the Berdan case is closer to the case mouth.
Doesn't Huntington's still sell .43 Spanish Bertram brass? I just got a couple boxes of 577/450 MH brass from HDS and they sounded well stocked with Bertram.

.43 Spanish could also be formed from .375 H&H, .300WinMag and 7mm. RemMag cases.

The belt should be removed in all cases either by using a lathe or a drill press.
There are different methods for adding a rim, they vary from complex solutions like soldering or threading a brass washer to the bottom of the case or more simple ones like adding a circlip or an o-ring to the case cannelure. In some cases the final case length might be somewhat shorter than 2.25" but they work anyway (specially when you use breech seating like I do).

Argie.

I know that forming useful cases from other cases is a fun hobby. Just pointing out that .43 Spanish cases originally made as such are currently available from Track of the Wolf at $3.99 each. Hmmm....why that's only $79.80 for a box of 20! (ouch!) I bought 10 of these cases way back before the big shortage when they cost a bit less, and they've lasted and lasted.

DG

Thank you for sharing the dies used in your process. Definitely useful in the future.

Just as a comparison, to refer to those asking about the annealing: when I reformed 24ga brass shotgun shells for 450 Martini Henry, I found I had to heat "with purpose" to get the shells to form without risk of folds. I'd anneal, form in a Snider die, anneal, then use the M/H die, anneal, then complete the reforming. Once I got a good method going, my loss rate dropped significantly. The ones for the M/H that folded over were later culled for use in a Snider. I had to use far more heat than expected, but all that reforming hardened up the brass afterword.

The amount of work that went into making the M/H cases, had I needed to sell them, would have easily been $3+ per, esp since the host case was over a dollar per.