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I'm new to fire forming wildcat casings. I have annealed my .300wsm casings. For the powder load, would I use the .300wsm load data and load them at the minimum or maximum powder weight for the given powder type to be used? Do I need to use a magnum rifle primer since its a magnum casing or can I use standard rifle casing primer? Winchester WLR or WLRM
You don't want rifle powder for that. Use some really fast flake shotgun powder topped with cream 'o' wheat or grits or similar and some toilet paper to hold it in. Fire it straight up in the air. The COW will generate pressure and form the cases out nicely. Start with a light load, maybe 7 grains of powder. Go up a little at a time until you get fully formed cases. Don't overdo it.
Can you not neck them up with tapered expanders so that you can load a boolit and work on zeroing rifle and load development?
I have a 416 wildcat based on a 300 WSM. I Use a .338 expander, .358, .375, .416
Then trim to squareup mouth..
Yep that works too but he did specifically ask about fireforming...
Yes, he did and had not Nobade already answererd that thoroughly, I would have addressed that in addition to posing my question.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobade
When primers were 'cheap' I used 8 grains Red Dot, case full of corn meal with a wax wad to fireform 35-284 from 284. Now I have a selection of Lee Decappers with the Lee X-panders in .30, .338, .348, .358, and .375 for neck expansion (MidwayUSA -$2.99(?)). If expanding, lots of lube in the neck, I use Hornady Unique lube on a Q-tip, keeps from splitting necks, annealing help with 'large' changes.
I used the similar amount of Red Dot some toilet paper and rest with cream of wheat and more TP and some of LARS BAC to hold on place and fired vertically. Even with annealed necks i lost cases do to splitting backed down the charge and did not fill out. The rapid expansion going from 30 to 416 tore the sidewall of the necks up.Quote:
Originally Posted by MostlyLeverGuns
I have had more split necks with fire forming than with gradually expanding necks. If I'm going a long way, 30 to 416, I anneal twice. I anneal before the first expansion and then again at about 375. I did 25 a few nights ago. The first one split going from 375 was not annealed the second time. I annealed the rest a second time and got them all to final size without splits.
I'm still new at this annealing thing but I'm starting to get it.
Same here, I ended up making an expanding die with many steps of inserts when I was making 416 Taylors out of 7mm rem mag cases. Trying to fireform them resulted in many destroyed cases. On the other hand, fireforming worked perfectly to make Swiss Vetterli cases out of 8x60R Lebel. Different type brass I suppose.
Read through this:
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...rly-optimistic
or here:
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...s-from-300-WBY
There are a number of threads on fireforming, experiment. You will see people who anneal before ANY forming, and people who think ALL annealing is done after the complete forming.
I'm in the middle, there are some that take multiple annealings to get a fully formed case, before, during and after forming.
The majority are a one and done after forming.
And some it is once before forming and once when forming is complete.
As I said experiment.
Good luck.
I have annealed the casing and tried expanding using different size expanders. All this did was roll the shoulder in or it compacted the casing and made it short. It would seem to me that it would be better to pull the neck outward to oversize then run through the resize die. I made and expander with a cross slot and a hole down the middle of it. Once placed inside the neck I drive a pin down the center hole of the expander. This pushes the ends outward. Then I pull the casing out of the die. This spreads the neck casing outward. I have made 3 of these expanders in different diameters fron .30, .35 and .40 roughly. When the pin is pushed down and expands the end the expanded diameter is .35, .40 and .45. The neck is then expanded past .40 and not perfectly round. I run is back through my die resizer which then reforms the neck and shoulder. I then ream the inside of the neck to .40 if I need to.
Why use shotgun powder? Whats the difference? Lesser pressure?
I believe that they would have sized right to .40 caliber with tapered expanders PRIOR to annealing.
Once annealed they are very prone to collapsing the shoulder.
More pressure and a much faster rise time. Got to hit it hard to make it form.Quote:
Originally Posted by 10mm Witness
I think its a waste of my money to buy a pound of shotgun powder to accomplish this endeavour. 1lb.=7000g At 35g per casing thats a heck of alot of casings that could potentially be made. These are the powders I have on hand. Can any of them be used? H4831sc, Varget, H335, 1860, IMR4198 and PowerPistol
Pistol powders have worked well for case forming also, Bullseye and Unique have been used quite often.
I have no idea where Power Pistol falls in the burn rate charts. I would assume that is a possibility.
None of this stuff is screaming high pressure loads.
You could try one or two to see how they work.
Problem is, with your address, they'd probably frown on touching one off in your backyard.
Out where I'm at it's an unusual day when you don't hear someone banging away in the backyard:Fire::Fire:
And for primers, any primer that fits should work for corn meal wax plug loads.
I typically use recycled primers from other people's loads/garage sale find loads.
Stuff I wouldn't shoot in a guy I don't like gun.
I hang around 4 different gun clubs, it's amazing the volume of "this is grandpa's stuff do whatever you want with it" stuff that comes through the door.
I've always got fireforming primers. And VINTAGE powder. $1.90 Bullseye?
Attachment 312677
Some of the current crop of fireforming primers.
Don't even think of putting 35grs of power pistol in a case to fire form it. Start with 5 or 6 grs and work up until you get full expansion. I don't think it will take more than 10grs at max.
Your idea of using expanding plugs from the inside should work better than either fire forming or tapered plugs from the top. I would experiment with annealing at different stages if you get split necks.