Seating PC bullets

I corrected a mistake assembling 40-182 TC Lee PC testloads today. Originally, I resized a certain quantity of cast bullets and used some resized and flared casings. I ran out and without thinking seated bullets into cases where the bullets just barely fit. This worked for jacketed bullets before. But sometimes, the paint would sheer off the edge of the case. I thought about leading from loads I may not notice with exposed lead. So today, I culled all the brass that didn't show a clear roll crimp and assembled replacement test loads with flared casings and sized bullets. I pulled the other bullets to inspect them. Here are the best examples. The top row is what I pulled from the original testloads that I culled. The second row are dummy loads I made to replicate and confirm my theory. The left column is a PC bullet seated into a flared case (the mark on the top is from the kinetic puller). The center column shows bullets seated into a case mouth that wasn't flared but the bullet could seem to fit into the case mouth. And the right column is a bullet seated in a flared case and then crimped, then seating depth was increased to acquire a specific COL. From now on, I'm seating the bullet first and crimping the case so the flare is flat but not cinched into the lead bullet or separating the seating process and the crimping process.Attachment 300494

On all cast bullet loads, both pistol and rifle, I always do seating and crimping as two separate operations. I flare the mouth of the cases so that half the depth of a gas check will enter the case. With plain base boolits I flare the same amount. On rifle cartridges I only crimp enough to remove the flare, and rely on neck tension to hold the boolit. On revolvers I always crimp the case good to prevent recoil from setting the boolits forward and locking up the cylinder. If seating the boolit shaves lead or powder coating your ammo will not be very accurate, and you might get leading in the barrel.

You pretty much have to chamfer every single case with lead and PC bullets. If you chamfer you can seat and crimp in one step on most bullets and die sets. I used to get PC scraping on a significant portion of my 9mm, even when I seated and crimped in separate steps. Once I took the time to chamfer the cases I found I could seat and crimp in one step and have great results.

What do you recommend per crimping? There is the roll crimp and then there is the Lee factory crimp. Then how do you determine your crimp? I've turned my die down until it was stopped by the case and then added 1/4-3/8 of a turn until the flare was gone. I don't want the PC to rub off from a crimped case mouth

You chamfer but don't flare your case?

Chamfer and flare.

The biggest aide to my cast boolit shooting was when I used a Lyman M-Die for CB in 30-30 .
Simple flaring with standard die was ok for J-words but Cast was iffy .
The M-die did it right ... then a Lee Universal Case Expanding Die worked fairly well especially with gas checked boolits ... the real help was the NOE inserts ...
M-die results with a inexpensive insert used in the Lee Universal Case Expander body ... Winner Winner Chicken Dinner ...
These make seating plain based boolits easy ...truth be known , with a case so flared and expander you can seat and crimp in one step ...if you want to !
Gary

I do it the uncomplicated way. I take a sized either lubed or coated and set it close by. Then I size and then start "flaring" my cases. After maybe 3 or 4 that I have "flared" I check them with the bullet I have prepared and I check them with the bullet. If there is enough clearance around the bullet I continue to "flare". If not I turn the die in more until there is enough "flare" and then proceed with the "flaring" process. If I am taper crimping I do it in a separate stage as I am retired and have the time. If the bullet has a crimp groove I seat and crimp at the same time.
My method may not suit everyone but I have found it very good for me. I reload for revolver and semi autos.

I have the same mold and use HF Red for my 40. I just flare just enough bullet sits on case where I like, flared just enough not to scrape off the coating, seat , and taper crimp last just enough to straighten the case wall. I also use a Redding G-R x push thru sizing die, so they are all consistent size as they were all once fired from range salvage.. That die (they say) will work for my 10mm as well as I just found out!

I always flare the case mouth for cast. Either a Lee universal expander (rifle) or the Lee powder through expander (pistols).

Seat the bullet, no crimp.

Next step is crimping with Lee dies. For rifles the crimp die is set to just straighten out the neck (collet type die). For pistols it is taper or roll crimp heavy enough to withstand chambering and recoil forces.

Yes, all my bullets these days are PC. If I happen to scrape the coating I toss the bullet back in the pot. If you flare the case sufficiently the seating process will not scrape the PC....unless you put the bullet on the case cockeyed.

taper crimp...and do it in a separate step from seating.

100% seat THEN CRIMP SEPARATELY.

100% Chamfer case mouths

I use a M-Die from Lyman but NOE makes some that work with a LEE universal and Redding as there version. ALL make seating cast bullets square true and easy!!

CW

Never chamfer cases unless I trim them which is so rare that it is almost never.
Never seen a need to chamfer the cases unless trimmed.

Cases get ejected out of semi autos and hit brushed concrete at my state range. Little dings in the case mouth will catch the coating as you seat the bullet. Bullets with the coating scraped will be fliers and subsequent shots might also be fliers if fouling is left in the barrel.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 44MAG#1

Never chamfer cases unless I trim them which is so rare that it is almost never.
Never seen a need to chamfer the cases unless trimmed.

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Well Now ya have a reason bud!! ;)

ALL bullets seat better easier more cocsistant with a slight chamfer!!!

CW

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cwlongshot

Well Now ya have a reason bud!! ;)

ALL bullets seat better easier more cocsistant with a slight chamfer!!!

CW

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Will it move my shooting ability into a new unheard of level?
I'll find out. I'll load some 44 Mags and try them in my M69 2.75 inch at 50 yards offhand and see.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 44MAG#1

Will it move my shooting ability into a new unheard of level?
I'll find out. I'll load some 44 Mags and try them in my M69 2.75 inch at 50 yards offhand and see.

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♥️♥️

I tried loading some 9mm last night. These are HP 137.5 gr powder coated boolit dropped from a HP hollow point mold. All sized to 0.357. I using Lee carbide die set and Lee FCD. I really struggle to get the case mouth flared enough to get the boolit to sit just barely in the mouth and I could sometimes hear the boolit being scraped on the case going in. I have the powder through expander die set as per factory instructions but still can't get it to expand enough to have the boolit go in easily. I took the die apart and cleaned it ( it was pretty dirty ) re assembled and tried again with no difference. What the heck am I doing wrong? I have the die set to touch the case holder and instructions say to back it out one full turn and the adjust accordingly. I've even tried it without backing it out one full turn and it's still the same.

Lee has a couple different thru powder dies.

Is yours caliber specfic? I use these for a couple Calibers myself and M-Die is better but the lee works ok. I dont follow directions past initial setup. Adjust it down more till YOU LIKE what its doing.

But the non caliber spec die wont flair. It just kinda seals the powder flow.

Good luck

CW

I flare every case I reload; revolver, pistol, rifle with cast, jacketed and PCed. Been doing so since about 1985 or so. Some get a lot, some a little, but It's pretty hard to push a lead slug that is .004" larger than a brass tube, even if the rim is "chamfered". I often tell newer reloaders to use as much flare as necessary to seat the bullets straight and cleanly. Too much flare is when the cse either won't enter the seating die or scrapes the ID. Flare is removed in the following step, crimping. Get good shootable handloads now, worry about case life later...