6mm PPC from 7.62x39

Long, long ago in a far away place my machinist teacher built a Remington 700 for me in 6mmPPC.
Brass was expensive and I had read an article about a varmint hunter that had bought a gun chambered in 6PPC to shoot prairie dogs and wanted 500 rounds of brass. At 50 cents a round at the time, they are $1.50 now, that would be $250, way more than he wanted to spend! &.62x39 was a whole lot cheaper and he was successful in making 6mmPPC with the cheaper brass.
My experiments at the time were a failure and only produced some ruined cases. I had bought some Midway brand 7.62x39 brass for the project.
Fast forward 20+ years and I wanted to load some ammo to go shoot my 6PPC rifle and I could not find my brass and at $1.50 current price I began to think about reforming 7.62x39 brass again.
I found my brass and loaded some ammo, went to the range and shot a couple of rounds to get it on the paper at 100 yards and was scrounging for 22mag brass to make 6mm bullets. I stumbled on a Federal 7.62x39 case with a deformed neck and decided to use it as an experiment to try again to form a 6PPC case.
I have an RCBS die for forming 243 brass from 308 and used it for an intermediate step before going down to 6mm.
It worked but is too long so I will take a 7/8''-14 bolt and drill a 9/32'' hole and polish it. The actual size in the die is .289'' but since I don't have a bit that size 9/32 is .281'', and after polishing it will be close enough!
6PPC brass is small primer pocket size and I think Remington 7.62x39 brass is small primer pocket so I will sacrifice a couple to make a few 6PPC to see how they work!

I made 6mm PPC brass from R-P headstamped 7.62x39 small primer brass. Just ran it into the case forming die that came with the rifle then fireformed it. Sized with a neck sizing bushing die. Was nothing to it. I did not even anneal. Oh, I did have to trim and turn the necks.

Tim

You can make brass that way, but you'll have a hard time shooting to the rifle/cartridge potential with them. A lot of the magic is in the brass, accuracy wise.

If you went to one of the benchrest forums and asked to buy their discarded brass, you could do very well.

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Originally Posted by B R Shooter

You can make brass that way, but you'll have a hard time shooting to the rifle/cartridge potential with them. A lot of the magic is in the brass, accuracy wise.

If you went to one of the benchrest forums and asked to buy their discarded brass, you could do very well.

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I have Norma and Lapua brass some formed from 220 Russian. I just tried some of the R-P small primer and some Federal Large Primer to see how much it mattered and really just our of curiosity.

I am just curious what you think the potential for my rifle is? I did not describe it and for that matter the OP's rifle some factory rifles are now chambered for 6mm PPC but the chambers are looser than benchrest chambers.

Tim

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Originally Posted by dtknowles

I have Norma and Lapua brass some formed from 220 Russian. I just tried some of the R-P small primer and some Federal Large Primer to see how much it mattered and really just our of curiosity.

I am just curious what you think the potential for my rifle is? I did not describe it and for that matter the OP's rifle some factory rifles are now chambered for 6mm PPC but the chambers are looser than benchrest chambers.

Tim

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My rifle has a benchrest barrel and chamber, I have to turn the necks for the brass to chamber.

I know at least some of the Remington 7.62x39 brass is small primer size, it was when I was messing around with it several years ago. It seems like I read somewhere that they switched to large primers to go along with all the other boxer primed brass, but I could be imaging that.

I know I never had any problems lighting any powder charge with Winchester brand small rifle primers. Most of my loads, not all, were cast.

Robert

Would it be just as easy to push the shoulder back on 6.5 Grendel brass about .070, trim a few thousands on the length and bingo, 6PPC? It uses small rifle primers also. I have a Ruger #1V in 6 PPC USA but I haven't had to try to make brass for it . I believe some brands use the smaller flash hole as PPC brass.

Can you find any 6mm ARC brass? Shouldn't be much reforming or fireforming required.

The accuracy potential of a 6PPC is unparalleled, no cartridge has shot the small groups for years that it has. However, these are full blown custom rifles similar to what delta describes his as. Chambers are non-typical that require work on the brass, and are much tighter than any factory gun. Sako 6PPCs can shoot quite well, don't know about other factory guns chambered for it.

I guess my point is, even a factory chambered rifle can benefit from quality brass. When I think of 7.62x39 I think of an AK that is the farthest thing from an accurate gun you can get.

I have used redding form die to make brass from Winchester (Large Primer). Its pretty straight foward with the form die

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Originally Posted by B R Shooter

The accuracy potential of a 6PPC is unparalleled, no cartridge has shot the small groups for years that it has. However, these are full blown custom rifles similar to what delta describes his as. Chambers are non-typical that require work on the brass, and are much tighter than any factory gun. Sako 6PPCs can shoot quite well, don't know about other factory guns chambered for it.

I guess my point is, even a factory chambered rifle can benefit from quality brass. When I think of 7.62x39 I think of an AK that is the farthest thing from an accurate gun you can get.

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Agreed, but I only buy Lapua brass for my benchrest guns. I can't see any difference in accuracy with Lapua vs. Norma. The R-P brass did not shoot as well but the difference was less than a tenth of an inch in group size but that is huge in the benchrest world. Yes, the OP should buy top shelf brass if they want to shoot their smallest groups. My rifle is a second hand custom rifle, would not be match competitive but I got is for less than a grand. Shoots the smallest groups I ever shot.

Got to buy "Benchrest" bullets too if you want the smallest groups.

Tim

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Originally Posted by dtknowles

Agreed, but I only buy Lapua brass for my benchrest guns. I can't see any difference in accuracy with Lapua vs. Norma.

Got to buy "Benchrest" bullets too if you want the smallest groups.

Tim

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Yep, hard to beat Lapua for the PPC. Norma is good to unless you shoot the top end loads, which many do. No off the shelf bullet will group like hand made.

the op is making his own jacketed bullets so accurace is not going to be that good anyways

With no brass seamingly available the OP may not have a choice but to make his own. If PPC brass isn't extinct I would sure appreciate a link to purchase some.

I just checked the couple hundred pieces of 7.62X39 that I have, it's all PPU. Now that I know to watch for Remington SP cases I will set any that I find.

I remember putting a complete forming die set in the classified way back a year or so, dont think it sold, will look for them. Will re-list if I find em...

think remington only made sm primer a few years before going with the rest of the world and lg primer
if you do find some it will be 25 to 30 years old

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Originally Posted by turtlezx

think remington only made sm primer a few years before going with the rest of the world and lg primer
if you do find some it will be 25 to 30 years old

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I sold my SKS and most of my brass. I kept the Remington small primer brass, seemed like a good idea. I have not shot my 6mm PPC for years and I have Lapua and Norma brass. I have been spending time with my 30 BR and cast bullets. I only got the 6mm PPC to see if I could shoot small groups since none of my other guns did. Yeah, it was the guns not me or the ammo.

Tim

I made 6.5 Grendels several years ago. Everyone said the had no luck. Well I formed the new Win 762x39 brass without a hitch, and had no idea what the others had been talking about losing cases. Until I fired them. I lost 47 out of 50 with cracked necks and shoulders. Hard brass, needed annealing first.


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I have formed many thousands of 22 and 6 PPC brass from 7.62x39 brass...many. All were turn neck also. Accuracy is astounding with the large rifle primers in my Hall M actions, Stolle Panda's, and others.

Here are several issues to contend with, and the OP needs to heed my warning.

PPU brass has the reputation of being very good brass, and this maybe worth a shot. I used PMC brass for all of my riflles, and there is no down side.

I used a drill press and a Marquart neck turner to turn necks with, back then, and use a K&P today.

I necked down from 30 cal to 7mm, set headspace at that length. Then took my first neck turn at 7mm using the false shoulder later on to make sure the case head was firmly seated on the bolt face when fire formed.

Then necked down from 7mm to 6mm, re turned the brass neck thickness.

I have shot some very, very small groups in calm winds with the PMC brass...it is hard to kill....just like lapua brass today.

Winchester, Remington, Federal, IMI, brass is junk, it is very soft in the case head. I lost the primer pockets on the very first firing. I usually had 1000 rounds per gun on my p. dog hunts back in the late 80's and early 90's, and 2000 of the 22 PPC. PMC was the only brass that I could find that would take the pressure, and I mean the only brass other than Lapua 7.62x39 brass. Those with ears, let them hear!

This is all a labor of love, a tinkerer's delight, Winter time project in the warm garage with the TV or radio on. The results are very, very rewarding. 6 Guys that I took p.dog shooting built rifles around the PMC brass. You can sure shoot p. dogs fast with a right bolt, left port action, about 5 per minute, and barrel life and throat wear is minimal as I mentioned previously. I shot 300 round strings.

In today's world, Norma brass and Lapua brass are top notch, it is just hard to have 1000 cases for each rifle...must less 2000.

The project is very worth while for a guy that likes to tinker and try something very different. In my benchrest rifles with 27" barrels, I shot the6mm 60-62g at 3600-3650 with AA2230-S, any kind of primer would shoot in the 2's.

22 PPC would shoot in the high 1's and very low 2's with 53g Fowler and a powder called WC844, cci 200 primer or Rem 9 1/2. My reamers were short freebore with .244 neck in the 22 and .262 in the 6.

With the PMC brass, I never annealed until they had been fired 5 or more times, and I NEVER lost a case while fireforming on p.dogs or ground squirrels.

Note: Barrel life of a 6 PPC with zero freebore using 2230-S is in the 10,000 round area shooting long shot strings as long as you are happy with high 2's and very low 3's toward the end of the barrel life.

I also have a full set of RCBS form dies if anyone is interested.