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Sorry if this question is not on point but, in the thread title the revolver mentioned S&W model 10 and then the dash number, in this case dash 5.
Would the variations within the model 10 change how the revolver leads? Or, would this apply to all the revolvers in the model 10 production (or all revolvers)? I have a lot of experience with rifle cast bullet shooting, never much more than basic load and shoot with revolvers.
OK I'm going to try attaching the image again. Still very faint and doesn't look like it's much at all. https://imgur.com/Gb2NEXx Attachment 282072Quote:
Originally Posted by Petrol & Powder
And yes, I am keeping that brass. It looks quite nice!
My S&W Model 10-5 has a 4 inch, thinner profiled and pinned barrel. I believe that it was the model variation right before they introduced the Bull barrel as a standard. I specifically chose my 10-5 since it had the thinner profiled barrel similar to the earlier versions of Smith and Wesson's revolvers. The Military grips are non-standard, but they make speedloaders a breeze. After the photo I did get a Tyler T-Grip for it, and that has significantly improved my handling of the piece.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chill Wills
Attachment 282074 https://imgur.com/1DrdE4g
I encountered the same issue with my new GP100 10MM. I had my forcing cone cut to eleven degrees. From the factory the forcing cone is 5 degrees I believe. I do this with all my revolvers that are destined for lead bullets. That seemed to solve the leading in the first 1/8th inch of rifling. My bullets are water quenched WW alloy shot from 40cal brass. Until I get my GC maker from Pat I will be using jacketed FMJ bullets in my 10MM cases. I use soft Felix lube on my 40 cal. bullets destined for my M&P 40 S&W and my GP 100. I size them .401 using a RCBS sizing die. I hope this info helps.Quote:
Originally Posted by VariableRecall
Take Care
Bob
So, with a deeper forcing cone cut, the bullet would have a gentler time being shoved into the rifling, so to speak?Quote:
Originally Posted by robertbank
I suppose that over time, wear on the forcing cone would do the same thing and deepen the forcing cone over time? Although, I would suspect that if wear was that significant, you might want to get that replaced to begin with.
It would take a very long time for lead bullets to wear any of the forcing cone significantly. The whole idea I think is to do as you suggest, and ease the transition from the cylinder to the rifling. It seems to work. I got the suggestion from a few members here who had way more experience than I have for certain. Most have passed now and are shooting on heavens range. BruceB and Felix are two who are surely missed. Do a search for posts generated by either man. Reading their posts will leave you a wiser man to be sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by VariableRecall
Take Care
Bob
True that...........
S&W model and dash numbers are a study all to their own. I've memorized a lot of that history but still need a reference book now and then.Quote:
Originally Posted by VariableRecall
The Military & Police [M&P] model became known as the model 10 in 1957 when S&W started referring to their revolvers by model numbers in addition to the model names previously used. The M&P became the Model 10, the adjustable sighted model was the "Combat Masterpice", more commonly known after 1957 as the Model 15, and so on.
The dash numbers indicate engineering changes.
The Model 10 was introduced in 1957
10-1 1959 was a heavy barrel model 10
10-2 1959 was the introduction of left hand threads for the extractor rod on the standard barrel (tapered barrel) model
10-3 1961 was the introduction of left hand extractor rod threads on the heavy barrel and a 1/8" wide front sight. (previously 1/10" wide)
10-4 1962 elimination of front trigger guard screw on tapered barrel models
10-5 1962 the new 1/8" wide sight on the tapered barrel models
10-6 1962 elimination of front trigger guard screw on heavy barrel [HB] models
10-7 1977 change gas ring from yoke to cylinder on tapered barrel
10-8 1977 change gas ring from yoke to cylinder on HB model
10-9 1988 tapered barrel with several changes , new yoke retention system and other changes
10-10 1988 HB with same changes as the 10-9
As you can see, starting with the 10-5 models, the odd dash numbers will have the tapered barrel and the even dash numbers will be the heavy barrel versions.
There are sub-sets within all of that and the serious collectors can identify all of the variants.
I didn't realize the odd-even numbering scheme! I love the styling of the tapered barrel and it's a shame that scheme isn't available for sale today.Quote:
Originally Posted by Petrol & Powder
I don't mean to suddenly re-awaken this sleepy thread, but I've continued to experience leading in the same area of the barrel. Strangely enough, the leading is appearing in similar locations as when they occurred previously, even in the same patterns. Then again, this significant leading has occurred almost exclusively with the HSM Cowboy loads, and now all of them have been used up, and their brass will be put to good use.
This incident occurred when I had used almost a whole box of the smoky, leading-tastic stuff, so it's a worst case scenario. When I had used my bronze brush, exceptionally thin strips of lead were dislodged from the barrel. It took a good amount of effort to get all of it out, but it's good to know that even if things look nasty, all it takes is a bit more elbow grease to dislodge stubborn deposits. For certain, I'll be making close observations of my leading patterns when I'm using certain bullet sizes and profiles.
Get that forcing cone cut to 11 degrees. I am certain that will all but end your leading issues.
Take Care
Bob
Would the forcing cone be eventually "worn" into shape as I use it, or, is that not going to happen any time soon? The leading so far is merely annoying, not dangerous as far as I know.Quote:
Originally Posted by robertbank
Seeing my bro's 1911 barrel, when things start to get leady, the deposits are evenly distributed along his barrel. In mine, there's just the first half-inch or so of rifling, and perfectly clean after all the soot's out of the barrel.
Perhaps another aspect to this issue is that I have extremely easy access to both the front and rear of my barrel when my cylinder is removed ( wouldn't go anywhere near mine otherwise). So, perhaps being able to closely inspect it is another reason why even the tiniest deposits are observable against the dark steel of the barrel.
Thanks to a local Boolit Pal, I did get the opportunity to use a rifle range to try out long range shots on a whim. Still managed to hit (after a lot of misses) a man sized target at 200yrds with my revolver using the cowboy stuff. If anything, it's a clear reminder that the majority of accuracy is a You thing unless there's something very wrong with your firearm or your ammunition.
If the leading occurs only with the "smoky lead tasting stuff" it is because the bullets are too hard, probably undersized and the hard lube used on the commercial hard-cast bullets is unable to flow under pressure to coat the bore. Try tumble coating the bullets with 45-45-10 or Lee Liquid Alox which has been diluted by equal parts liquid volume of mineral spirits. Don't worry about coating over top of the hard lube. It won't hurt anything. Most of the time this is the easy fix with commercial hard-cast, but if the bullets are also undersized and fall through the cylinder throats of their own weight, there isn't much you can go but melt them down and start over.
True words written up there^^^
A quick tumble in any of the various tumble lubes will likely greatly improve most purchased cast boolits. I prefer BLL, or Recluse formula 45/45/10, but Lee Liquid Alox works great, just takes longer to dry.
This is what finally worked with my revolvers. Softer alloy, about 10 bhn. Boolits slightly smaller than cylinder throats. Powder coated or conventional lube. Medium load levels. Pretty sure I'm getting obduration sufficient for an nice seal.
I had only very light amounts of leading with the Hoosier commercial cast bullets that I had made use of. Clearly the HSM Cowboy stuff wasn't for my revolver. I've now got a Lee .358 148gn 6 cavity Wadcutter Mold so I can plink to my heart's content. I have used 9-ish lbs of Missouri Magic Alloy to about 6lbs of pure lead, resulting in boolits with a bhn of around 12-14 or so that worked perfectly for my 9mm Hi-Point. I may go for a lower BHN to whip up a batch of wadcutters but I think I'll stick to a similar bhn as the last batch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Outpost75
BTW the HSM Cowboy stuff was some premium Cowboy Action shooting small scale factory product. It came loaded with 148gn RNFP boolits, and while the quality was good, and the starline brass is top notch, apparently my revolver just isn't a fan.
Have the forcing cone cut to 11 degrees by DougGuy if you plan to shoot mostly cast bullets. I use White's 50/50 on almost everything I shoot and SPG on the Black Powder stuff. I would use Whites "Natural" BP lube but I can't find it on their web site. (Not BP-1, but the all natural stuff)
I have an S & W 15-5 in .38 Special and am casting/shooting a similar wc bullet.(Lachmiller button nose wc)I also tumble lube 2 swc's as cast for my revolver. I have been tumble lubing them as cast with BLL and shooting them with 3.4 grains of Bullseye. Shoot awesome and absolutely no leading! I do have one chamber that is slightly smaller and when it gets dirty, cases get a little sticky. My alloy is about 9.2 bhn, 98 % lead and 2% (or less) tin, so even softer than yours, work perfectly fine for me, hc18flyer
To the OP your forcing cone will never wear down to 11 degrees shooting lead, FMJ or plated bullets. Undersized bullets are going to lead your barrel. Cutting the forcing cone does allow for an easeir transition from cylinder to barrel. I found cutting the cone eliminated leading both in the barrel and around the entrance of the barrel. Both are a pain to clean up. The 39spl cartridge is a low pressure round and a soft bullet should seal the bore. I think you have the answers to your issues. Good luck with your solution.
Take Care
Bob
All right! I think I'll go ahead and do some research into getting that forcing cone modified to 11 degrees by a gunsmith. Either way, I know what does and doesn't work well for my revolver, and the ways to mitigate as well as remove leading.Quote:
Originally Posted by robertbank