Australian Martini Cadet .357

Years ago I picked up a Martini cadet that had been rebored to .357 magnum. I overheard the owner negotiating with a gun show dealer, and when they couldn't agree on price he walked away. I followed like a beagle on a rabbit trail and soon it was mine. :-D It's a BSA cadet with a 7/11 acceptance date stamped into the stock along with the Commonwealth of Australia cartouche, and it has a KANGAROO stamped into the top of the receiver.
I recall that I took it to the range and test fired it with my standard (at that time) .357 silhouette ram load for the Contender. I also recall that it grouped nearly a ragged hole at 50 yards and I know I was well pleased with the result. The rifle's pretty nice condition, has an EXCELLENT trigger and a very old-fashioned ladder rear sight that is fully adjustable.
That rifle has hung over the fireplace for years along with a few other old single-shots but I finally hauled it out to the range last weekend and let son Matt (10 years old) give it a workout.
The load was the same one that did so well in my first test. It uses the RCBS 180 gr. Silhouette bullet cast from linotype, gas checked, sized .357 and lubed w/ LBT blue - all over a stompin' charge of 296 that is no longer listed in most manuals but was a book maximum back in the '80s. I adjusted the rear sight to put it right on at 100 yards and fired three shots into about 2-1/2 inches. Not bad for these old eyes over VERY fuzzy, very small iron sights. I then turned it over to the boy with about 50 - 60 rounds left in the box. "Have at it laddie - remember, SQUEEZE the trigger...
Matt worked away at it, and when I checked his targets I saw some fair groups with occasional flyers. I counseled him again on trigger control and went back to my own tasks - with occasional explanations to other shooters' questions of "What the heck is THAT?"
Some time later it occurred to me that those flyers might not be Matt's fault - after all I had only fired a three shot group. I offered to try a couple of five shot groups but he said "Sorry dad, the ammo's all gone. You SAID I could shoot it as much as I wanted..."
Matt likes to shoot "The Kangaroo Gun" now - and it looks like I need to fire up the pot again.:) I'll have to get out my Merit "Old Eyes" disc and make SURE the dang thing groups consistently although I'm confident that it will. It looks like I have a "position rifle" trainer for the boys - and it's been hanging over the fireplace just looking good all along.
:drinks:

It's rifles like that I can almost always find a home for . Oddly enough , Finding a Martini around here doesn't happen all that often . A cadet is less likely :( Somebody's gotta be sitting on a whole boat load somewhere !!! ....... (please)

Jack

Try some Blue Dot in it when you fill the cases again. My Contender loves it in loads I wouldn't try in a revolver.

...............Probably just as much fun would be simple wad cutters over a mild charge. Thier accuracy range ends at about 50 yards, but a good load should just stack'em in on top of each other.

Anyone interested in miniature Martini's should check out Thad Scott at:

http://www.thadscott.com/rifles.html

.................Buckshot

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Originally Posted by Jack Stanley

A cadet is less likely :( Somebody's gotta be sitting on a whole boat load somewhere !!! ....... (please) Jack

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Guilty as charged !!:twisted: Got about 9 x Cadets, 7 x 303's, 2 x 577/450's, couple of shotties, a BPCR 40/65 and about 4 complete but in bits:Fire:

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Originally Posted by Jack Stanley

It's rifles like that I can almost always find a home for . Oddly enough , Finding a Martini around here doesn't happen all that often . A cadet is less likely :( Somebody's gotta be sitting on a whole boat load somewhere !!! ....... (please)

Jack

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They're not all that common around here either. :( When I stumbled onto this one more than ten years ago it was probably the first Martini cadet I'd ever seen. I'm pretty sure I gave two hundred bucks for it - but I'd not let it go for that now. :-D After I brought it home I did some research and learned that in many ways the cadet is the pinnacle of the Martini design, and near legendary for strength, durability and accuracy. Back in the 60s they practically GAVE 'em away. Sigh! I bought it because of the high weirdness factor and never even considered that it would be an excellent trainer, but of course that's what it was designed for.
A few years later I saw two more cadets at a very high-class gun show. There were $40K British double rifles there - I saw my first ever actual held-it-in-my-hands Volcanic pistol there - and one of the dealers had both a BSA and a Greener cadet in the original .310 chambering. I was drooling over the Greener until I saw that the top of the receiver was full of divots - like some moron had tried to pound open the breech block with a crowbar. Grrrrrr! The dealer STILL wanted over four hundred dollars for it and I left it there.
I'm mighty glad that I grabbed mine when I did.:-D

When I was a little younger, I was lucky enough to have one of these. As you mention they are a great little shooter, BUT I was silly enough to trade it off.

While I had it I did manage to take out a large feral cat with one round 158 gr JHP at 4' from the muzzle. (Lesson for the cat, "If someone wants your hide, don't sleep in the sunshine.")

If one was to turn up now in the shop, I would probably get the Martini .303" and bayonet out of the safe and stand guard on it until I could bring it home.

Currently seeking a .310" Cadet barrel which has been ruined but suitable to fresh out to .357" mag. The local dealer has a Cadet rifle in which the barrell is totalled; it is so dark inside that the only feature one can see is the light at the other end of the barrel. When the brush cames out it rauses a brown dust.

The problem is he wants too much for it.

If anyone offers to take it off your hands I would be showing them your front door on the way out.

John.

A mrtini cadet was the first rifle I ever bought and I had reasonable success with it. Given that I can't get too excited about them. I might be tempted by one in 17 Hornet, but it would have to be nice and it would have to be cheap. I have bought a couple recently to compete in the Martini matches the SSAA runs at the Military shoots, but as soon as my friends hear about them they buy them. First time I ever made money on a rifle the I didn't even get home, done it twice so far. Lost interest since. MIck.

I picked a really nice one up last year for $350 in the original .310 chambering and love shooting it. It seems to show a preferance for Blue Dot although I haven't tried a lot of different powders.
I also had a barreled action done in .357 that I am still stocking so haven't shot it yet. And just sent a barrel and 1215 action off to have it fitted up for 7X30 Waters with a Manlicher stock and scout scope. Should make a nice little deer gun (which is how I justify most of my guns). In reality I could outfit half the state with deer guns but it works for me. :drinks:

Bob

Mick:

I had a Cadet many years back, restocked and fitted withan Ackley barrel in a .17 on the .218 Bee case and an old steel 10x Weaver scope. It was pure delight to shoot. I decided to try something else (I forget what), sold the barrel to a friend, and sent the action to another friend for engraving, but he died soona fter and I didn't have the heart to badger the widow to get it back.

Did that box with the two cartridge books (Donnelly and "Cartridges of the World") ever arrive? I sent them Surface mail.

Doug

Not sighted at this stage Floodgate. I have to go to Sydney on the 19th, I'll drop in and crowd Bill Marden (in a friendly sorta manner of course) Mick.

I drove four hundred miles to a show last weekend and did manage to spot a cadet . It seems the owner wanted to keep it judging by the price tag . They sure look like a neat rifle but for the kind of money they fetch now I think I'll stick with the old 1894C [smilie=1:
There are a lot of other neat rifles I can fool with to help drown my sorrows he he he he :mrgreen:

Jack

I saw one last weekend at a show for $435. It looked original, but I kept walking for that price.

If you find a good one at a reasonable price, buy it. They ain't makin them anymore and the price keeps going up. They have done better than some of my retirement accounts. Unfortunately when I retire and have time to shoot them I'll have to sell them to live. I sure won't be able support my shooting habit on social security.

Bob

You know, I have a Cadet action only that I picked up awhile back. Didn't pay $50 for it. I have been wondering what caliber to rechamber it to and .357 seems about ideal.

I have been also wondering about how I am going to stock it. I have been thinking based on the stock socket at the back of the action that an Enfield stock would fit, anyone know? The foreend would have to be custom made based on whatever barrel I can find. I need to find a good, inexpensive .357 barrel for it as well. Pieces and parts......just looking to build a fun shooter to mess with.

One of the guys from Australia who lives near me, has a little cadet converted to 30/357Mag made from an old discarded target Bbl and he shoots cast in it. he is getting great results on goats, etc, and it is like a little wand it is so small and light. Mick.

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Originally Posted by 4fingermick

One of the guys from Australia who lives near me, has a little cadet converted to 30/357Mag made from an old discarded target Bbl and he shoots cast in it. he is getting great results on goats, etc, and it is like a little wand it is so small and light. Mick.

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Mick,
Is he the one who had an article on ambushing goats in one of the aussie hunting magazines?
I had been toying around with a version of that cartridge, went so far as to make up some mock cartridges with a .25" neck.

An excellent idea for a shot out martini.

John.

I think Mick is referring to me . He lives just up the road. I have one cadet re-barrelled to 30/357 magnum and another in 30/357 maximum. The small one wears a long eye relief Tasco scope and kicks 160 grain cast boolits out at 1650 fps. The other has not seen a lot of development yet but shows promise as the same boolit heads down range at over 2000 fps.
At ranges out to about 150 yards the small one has proved effective on goat sized animals with one shot kills being usual as long as correct boolit placement is achieved.
Heath

Lawyerman, that is a heck of a good price for a cadet action. Why not make a really nice gun out of it though. There are a couple stockmakers that offer stocks for the cadet action and barrels shouldn't be to difficult to come by. They can be turned into a really nice work of art.

Bob

Heathydee,

Good to hear from you. There would appear to be a couple of these 30/357 conversions around. They would make an interesting rifle especially for some of the Australian feral populations. My interest in a cartridge such as the 30/357 is for launching cast boolits.

IMO the capacity would give me close to 100% load efficiency in a small package and reduced airspace. Launching boolits upto 200gr weight at short ranges (100-200).

As I mentioned; there is an article in an Aussie hunting magazine from a shooter who reported on his hunt with one of these cadets. I believe I still have that issue here somewhere, but they don't give much detail on the cartridge (forming chambering etc.).

Hope to hear more of you on this forum,

John.

My conversion resulted from a mate giving me an action followed by another friend giving me a .30 caliber target barrel which allegedly was worn out. I used a D bit to cut the chamber, threaded and thinned down the barrel . Shortened it to about 18" and bushed the firing pin hole to prevent the primer extruding into it which sometimes happens with Martini Cadet conversions. This results in the action jamming shut as the breechblock cannot lower with primer metal protruding into the firing pin hole.
Developing loads for a Cadet conversion is fairly easy. The action is a very strong little number let down by a lack of mechanical advantage in the extraction process. Knowing this ,I began by using an Australian powder AR 2207 which is about equivalent to IMR 4198 . I kept upping the charge , commencing at about 13 grains , until cases began to stick . Ended up using 16.5 grains of 2207 behind a 160 grain GC cast boolit for a velocity of 1650 fps as measured by the chrony.
Best group so far at 100 yds is 1.5"
Heath

What is the 30/357? A necked down 357 cartridge to 30 cal. It sounds like it might be close to the 30 Herret which is a chopped and channeled 30-30. Sounds like it would be fun though. Who am I kidding they are all fun.

Bob

Honestly if the extractor hasnt been altered from the orig 310 I would go for say 32 H&R magnum with a .308 bore and a .309 throat, on a 1/10 to 1/14 twist .308 barrel.

I have one that needs to be done up into something, I bought a snap rimless extractor but I really think after some thought I'm gonna make it a rimmed setup. if somebody wants a rimiless extractor I could hook them up :-)

Bill

Who makes a stock for the Cadet? If there were and "off the shelf" option I would go that way. I just assumed that since it wasn't exactly a popular unit in this country that parts would be difficult to find and so was thinking of ways to "scrounge up" something to make it work. If there is an off the shelf unit that would be the way to go!

I will probably go the .357 Magnum route. I am not a wildcat person-simple is better and if I need something else....I'll grab a different rifle. This is just going to be a fun gun, plinker etc.....I just want to put an old action back into service and make it useful in some way.

Lawyerman,
It is no problem finding a stock for the Cadet. Treebone makes them. If you go to martinihenry.com there is a resource list there that lists many stock makers and gunsmiths that work on the Martinis and Cadets and parts suppliers.

Bob

ALL Martini Cadet ads on the inside cover of the Putdoor Life Magazines.

Dang they were $9.95 for 310, and a whopping $12.95 for the 357 Mag and other calibers offered all the way to 32 Winchester Special. #@ Win Spl may have been a bit more.

Finally got one in a trade of some Cadet parts I had on hand(planned to build one around the lever and bolt and attached parts someone gave me) and 75 bucks.

Sold to me buy a friend of the builder a gunsmith/shooter of cast bollit gun and target guns.

Barrel is a big ol 308 target rifle barrel that he wore out on highpower.



First thought it was a 30X357 Max, bought a set of dies from Jim Rock and

Then the 30X221 rimmed . . . .

It is none of those, but rather a 30X221 Long-Neck, Long Rimmed,

One can make the brass with 30X221 dies and Max brass.

Glad he sent 6 pieces of brass for me to start building around . . .

Have to get back with that one with boolits for FUN shooting

ALL Martini Cadet ads on the inside cover of the Putdoor Life Magazines.

Dang they were $9.95 for 310, and a whopping $12.95 for the 357 Mag and other calibers offered all the way to 32 Winchester Special. #@ Win Spl may have been a bit more.

Finally got one in a trade of some Cadet parts I had on hand(planned to build one around the lever and bolt and attached parts someone gave me) and 75 bucks.

Sold to me buy a friend of the builder a gunsmith/shooter of cast bollit gun and target guns.

Barrel is a big ol 308 target rifle barrel that he wore out on highpower.



First thought it was a 30X357 Max, bought a set of dies from Jim Rock and

Then the 30X221 rimmed . . . .

It is none of those, but rather a 30X221 Long-Neck, Long Rimmed,

One can make the brass with 30X221 dies and Max brass.

Glad he sent 6 pieces of brass for me to start building around . . .

Have to get back with that one with boolits for FUN shooting