Project: Relining and rechambering a .32 rimfire

I have recently taken on a new project and am outlining it here for those who may be interested.

The rifle is a Remington Model 4 Rolling block take-down version in .32 rimfire that belonged to my great-grandfather and has been a wallhanger for as long as anyone can remember. The chamber and bore are pitted well beyond what would be safe to shoot, and the barrel tenon is loose in the receiver. Surprisingly, the action is tight, the pins are all good, and all the original parts are there except for the forearm screw.

Every time I take this gun out to look at I get the yearning to shoot it, so I decided to see about relining the barrel and converting it to .32 S&W Long since reading Molly's thread on the .32 rimfire in the rimfire forum. Returning this old gun to service would scratch an itch I've had since I was about five years old.

Right now I'm looking at a 13mm piloted liner drill from Brownell's, have to get the short one and extend it since the .32 bit is the only one they don't sell in 15". I'm also looking at Redman liners. I've never relined a barrel before, so this should be interesting, at least for me :grin: If anyone has suggestions or tips for the lining or for the project in general feel free to enlighten me.

So, here are some pictures, I apologize for the quality but I'm no photographer!

Gear

Hi Gnasher,

Had to follow you over and see what comes of your project. Did you read the jackleg conversion I did on my own #4 breechblock? Sorta screwy, but it worked fine. Never had the first problem with it.

Yes, I did, read it several times. I might be pm'ing you when it comes time to do mine, there were a couple of things in your description that I wasn't quite clear on, but I got the basic idea, which helps quite a bit. I'm sure I can make something work along those lines.

BTW, does anybody make a .308-groove centerfire barrel liner, or are the manufacturers scared someone would use it for a .300 Win Mag and kill themselves?

Gear

I use T.J.'s liners ( 859-635-5560). Much better selection, hammer forged, smoother rifling. He has the .308 and .312 liner, 1-10 and 1-16 respectfully. I install about 2 a week on average. Make my own piloted drills to take out most of the metal then ream for a close fit, try for .002" clearance. Liners are made from 4130 steel seamless tube.
With a take-down model 4 you might want to shoot the 32 S&W shorts. The solid frame is a bit stronger.

I've never heard of TJ's liners. Does he have a web site? Are these the same ones Track Of The Wolf sells? They have a 30 cal liner, as well as many other sizes.

I left a message at TJ's, I look forward to discussing this project with him and getting his recommendations, thanks for the tip.

Gear

When I relined my Model 1892, 32WCF, I also looked at Brownells 13mm piloted drill. 13mm is .5118, while the liner OD is .500. I didn't care for the .012 slop, so I spun down a pilot on a 1/2" drill, and ground the cutting lips to 45 degrees. I didn't drill all the way through the barrel, stopping at the corner of the bore and the end of the muzzle, for an invisible reline job. One light pass with a reamer and the Redman liner fit like a glove.
John
Almost forgot, I bored the chamber (boring bar in lathe) out to 1/2" otherwise the piloted drill would not be guided by the pilot when starting the hole..

Oh, the things I could do if I had a lathe!

Ok, project update. After a bunch of looking, talking to different folks (including the fine gentleman at TJ's liners), I decided to go with my original plan of converting to .22 Long Rifle. Several considerations affected that decision, the main two being total tooling cost and the fact that the barrel on this gun tapers to 5/8" and I don't trust myself to be able to drill a 1/2" hole through it's ragged, pitted bore without collapsing the barrel or bending it. If I had a better bore (especially the chamber end) for a pilot to ride, I'd feel better. I'd also feel better if I could make my own drill with about a .320" pilot after drilling to 5/16" and reaming to .320" or so, making sure I had a good, centered hole down the middle. I could make hardwood clamps contoured to hold the barrel in a vise using a router and keystone cutter, but I don't have a good way to make the custom, piloted drill.

So here's what I've done so far: I cut off .450" of the barrel tenon to get rid of the bulged part of the chamber and the over-peened tenon and cam groove. Then I used a jewler's saw to cut a line around the barrel at the new set-back point to make a clean "cut to" line to fit against the receiver. Since the .22 is obviously smaller than the .32, I studied the dimensional differences and decided to cut the new tenon eccentric to the bore in order to lower the chamber .025". Lowering the chamber makes the existing firing pin align properly with the .22 rim. I rough ground the tenon on a bench grinder and worked on it with files for a couple of hours and have it within .022" of final OD. From here on out I'll use Prussian blue and finer files, then a block and sandpaper to get a good, tight fit in the receiver. Last I plan to cut the slot for the barrel locking cam with a round file. Tedious, but it's working great so far.

While I was at it, I went ahead and drilled the bore out with a 12" 5/16" bit, nice and straight and basically just took out the rifling. After talking with TJ's it looks like I'll need to get a .315" chucking reamer to open it up just a bit more for the .312" liner, which I plan to Acraglass into place. This will hopefully remove some pitting at the old throat and about halfway through the barrel. What pitting is left, well, that's what Acraglass is for, right? :redneck:

Due to the high recommendations from members here and elsewhere, I think I'm going to get the liner from TJ's rather than get one of the cheapos from Brownell's at 1/3 the cost, if I'm going to this much trouble, might as well have the best.

I still need to get the .315" chucking reamer, a chamber gauge, and a .22 Long rifle chamber reamer, but the only other major modifications will be relocating the forearm screw hole and Tigging up the extractor to recut for the .22 rim. I figure I'll headspace the barrel to the breech block, then rebate the barrel for the exractor and get the barrel/breechblock/extractor fit nice and tight, then remove the breech block and cut the chamber with the barrel installed and extractor closed. Hopefully that will give me a nice fit with the rim recess in the back of the liner and the extractor cut together in the gun. The one task that my local gunsmith CAN handle is cutting the crown, I may let him do that part if his fee (less refinishing) is cheaper than the tool.

I'll post pics as this progresses.

Gear

jmh54738, Most of the time I bore from the muzzle end but I have done as you when it was better to bore from the chamber end. There is a way to hide the liner at the muzzle end without stopping short.
geargnasher, Before you run out and buy a reamer try the liner in the hole. Most liners from T.J.s are about .002" smaller on the OD. I find that high strength (red) Loctite is much easier to use than epoxy based glues.

We'll se what I get. Mike said his small OD .22 liners are .312", I figure only a test fit like you say will tell for sure.

I saw you mention the red Loctite several times lately, sure seems easier to use, but I remember from a Permatex training seminar that it needs a pretty tight fit to be effective, and that it's strengh deteriorates the thicker you get. I see why you encourage a .002" fit, if you were using epoxy or solder you would want a bit more clearance. Have you tried the Bearing and Sleeve retainer (green)? It sets up pretty fast when the air goes away, but I'll bet it's stronger.

Would there be any advantage to getting a "match" chamber reamer, or is that just asking for trouble with bulk high-velocity .22 ammo?

Gear

Gear,

If it was me, I would use a standard chamber. Most match chambers are pretty tight, some will even engrave the bullet when chambering. With a rolling block, you really want the cartridge to chamber freely so the hammer has a free fall until it hits the firing pin.


Robert

Ok, John Taylor, I'm curious now, what is your process for hiding the liner when you drill all the way through the bore? I also use red locktite. There is a chart telling what gap is allowable for the stuff to go off. I'm sure green sleeve retainer is fine, I just don't have any. Make sure everything is degreased well. I do not use the accelerator. I have tinned liners and bores with soft solder, then slid them together, but it is a pain. A standard class #2 bolt and nut had more than .002 clearance, and for me, red had never failed to go off. Without heat you can break the bolt if you use red. For threaded fasteners I use blue if I ever intend disassembly.
John

I remember that clearance chart, too. They have one for the RTV sealers as well. I'm very familiar with the characteristics of the threadlockers, I go through several large bottles of red and blue every week. Red only gets used where needed, blue is the standard. I wasn't concerned about the ability of the stuff to hold the liner in, I was worried that it isn't very hard when it cures like Acraglass is and won't support behind the liner if there are pits or eroded areas still in the barrel. Do you smear grease on the ends or use some other method to seal from air so the Loctite cures all the way out to the edge of the liner?

MK, thanks for the input, I have little experience with match chambers.

Gear

Spent all afternoon fitting and headspacing the barrel, hands are sore from filing but I got a rock-solid, square, and tight fit both to the breechblock and the receiver. Don't try this at home! Managed to achieve exactly .025" drop in the barrel centerline, looks like the .22 rims will be right in line with the firing pin. It has been suggested to me to file the sides of the firing pin to make it more like a blunt chisel than a rod, apparently there is a good reason almost all .22 rimfires have such a pin.

Anyway, it looks like this might actually work!

Gear

Hiding the liner at the muzzle. After the bore is reamed for a close fit, peen the end of the barrel a small amount working around the hole and not the OD. This will move a little metal and make the hole smaller. Bevel the end of the liner, this will help spread the Loctite. slide the liner in from the breach end and when it gets to the muzzle it will require a few taps with the hammer to get it sticking out. Cut the excess off and file smooth on the end taking a little off the barrel till no line shows then polish. A note, when peening don't use the ball end of a ball peen hammer, the other end should have a slight convex curve, make sure it is smooth. If your hammer has a flat face ,look for another hammer. It does not take very much and you can try the liner in the hole dry to see if you moved enough metal.
On red loctite. once it starts setting up it seems to get hard even if you get some inside the bore. Don't ask. Most of the time the heat of cutting the excess off will set the liner. I go strait from driving the liner in to the power hacksaw and then start filing. By the time I have the chamber end cut off it is stuck good enough to start chambering. If you don't have a close tolerance it may take longer.

Thanks for the tutorial, John, I've plugged alot of holes, peened, and resurfaced, but I have never applied it to the muzzle end when relining. Nice tip!! Geargnasher, what are you doing to use up several large bottles of Locktite each week? My TC Contender with match chamber fully engraves rifling of the bullet.
John

Heavy equipment/OTR/automotive mechanic. Lots of critical, large-diameter fasteners.

Gear

Quote:

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Originally Posted by John Taylor

Hiding the liner at the muzzle. After the bore is reamed for a close fit, peen the end of the barrel a small amount working around the hole and not the OD. This will move a little metal and make the hole smaller. Bevel the end of the liner, this will help spread the Loctite. slide the liner in from the breach end and when it gets to the muzzle it will require a few taps with the hammer to get it sticking out. Cut the excess off and file smooth on the end taking a little off the barrel till no line shows then polish. A note, when peening don't use the ball end of a ball peen hammer, the other end should have a slight convex curve, make sure it is smooth. If your hammer has a flat face ,look for another hammer. It does not take very much and you can try the liner in the hole dry to see if you moved enough metal.
On red loctite. once it starts setting up it seems to get hard even if you get some inside the bore. Don't ask. Most of the time the heat of cutting the excess off will set the liner. I go strait from driving the liner in to the power hacksaw and then start filing. By the time I have the chamber end cut off it is stuck good enough to start chambering. If you don't have a close tolerance it may take longer.

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Hope you don't mind Mr. Taylor but here's a picture of the end of my Colt Lightning barrel that you just sent me. If I didn't know better, I'd swear you switched barrels for a new one. No lines visible.

WOW. Thanks for posting that.

I'm doing a side job right now so I can afford one of TJ's 5/16" .22 rimfire liners, stay tuned.

Gear

I'm watching this thread to see how your rolling block turns out. I have a Model 12 Remington that needs relined; there were way too many corrosive primed shorts in its past. I just don't have the funds to do it right now.


Robert

I'm still working so I can buy the better liner, it's about a hundred bucks shipped. Still gotta come up with a chamber reamer for .22 LR and headspace gauge from Brownell's, that'll be about another $50 shipped. Bear with me, it'll get done eventually. If I get time tonight, I'll post some more pics of the WIP.

Thanks for looking,

Gear

Mk42gunner, When you take your mod. 12 apart watch for a small part between the barrel and slide at the action, very easy to lose. Falls out when the slide is taken out.

Thanks for the reminder, John. I took it apart once when I first got it, so I could clean all the grungy gunk out of it. I found disassembly instructions somewhere on the internet. I do remember that it was not simple to do.

Question on removing the barrel, is it screwd in or pressed in? Or is it even necessary to remove the barrel from the action to drill it? It almost looks like a drill would clear the top of the action.

This is at the very least a few months down the road, probably a few years to be honest about it.

Robert

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mk42gunner

Thanks for the reminder, John. I took it apart once when I first got it, so I could clean all the grungy gunk out of it. I found disassembly instructions somewhere on the internet. I do remember that it was not simple to do.

Question on removing the barrel, is it screwd in or pressed in? Or is it even necessary to remove the barrel from the action to drill it? It almost looks like a drill would clear the top of the action.

This is at the very least a few months down the road, probably a few years to be honest about it.

Robert

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Barrel is screwed in and it is best to take it out for lining.

Thanks John,

I would rather ask a question beforehand than make an "Oops I might have screwed up" post.

Robert

OK, finally wrangled up the funds and confirmed with Mike Sayers of TJ's liners, I'll be sending him a check tomorrow for one of his liners.

Gear

Got the liner in, nice piece of work! Mike Sayers is a great fellow to work with over the phone, anybody that's doing their own relining job should talk to him about the parts.

Also got a Manson .22lr finish reamer from Brownell's and a fresh bottle of red Loctite. Tapered the liner and peened the muzzle last night for a good fit, I'm going to put it together this morning.

Gear

I chickened-out on the Loctite, used Acraglas instead and I'm sure glad I did. The grooves were a bit deeper than the .3215" drill bit and some remained, plus there were some eroded places in the old throat area that left some voids to be filled, I think the Acraglas did a better job of filling all the excess, plus I mixed plenty of it and had lots of time to slowly push the liner down the barrel making sure it pushed a good wave of Acraglas in front of it and had a good stream being carded off by the breech. I precoated the bore with a TiG rod and small, loose patch using several passes to slather a good coat inside. Looks good so far!

Gear

Time for some pics, the receiver and all the small parts are being reblued, more pics when I get it back together. I did test fire five rounds through it before final disassembly for refinishing. Note the muzzle, no seam.

Gear

Nice! Thanks for the commentary.

Looks nice

Thanks, John, it shoots nice, too! Thank you again for sharing that little trick of the trade, it sure made a difference in the outcome of my project.

Gear

John, That method of hiding the muzzle seam works like a charm. I just finished my very first barrel reline on a Winchester 1890 and I'm amazed. I can't see a trace of liner at the muzzle.
Thanks for the tip.
Any tricks for hiding the breech end?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rustyjack

John, That method of hiding the muzzle seam works like a charm. I just finished my very first barrel reline on a Winchester 1890 and I'm amazed. I can't see a trace of liner at the muzzle.
Thanks for the tip.
Any tricks for hiding the breech end?

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There is but I already gave away to much.8-)

OK... I understand keeping trade secrets from an amateur :)

I've experimented with a slight flare to the breech end of the liner and tapping it into the barrel just shy of flush and then filing enough to just skim the barrel surface and polishing with 320 grit. It hid the surface seam nicely. I'll ream the chamber after the liner is installed. It may still show at the extractor cut out though.

Am I close?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rustyjack

OK... I understand keeping trade secrets from an amateur :)

I've experimented with a slight flare to the breech end of the liner and tapping it into the barrel just shy of flush and then filing enough to just skim the barrel surface and polishing with 320 grit. It hid the surface seam nicely. I'll ream the chamber after the liner is installed. It may still show at the extractor cut out though.

Am I close?

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Very close.