New caster...so many bullet styles!

Hello CastBoolits!

New guy here choosing which bullet styles to cast for my 5" XD45 l and .357mag SP101. My lead experience so far is only with Missouri Bullet Company products...230gr RN "Softball" and 158gr SWC "Action" respectively. What should I try first for my maiden endeavor? :)

The XD doesn't like SWC-styles and I haven't tried TC or RNFP. The Softballs from MBC have a shoulder that gave me some headache so I'm a little hesitant to use a bullet style with a "shoulder" I must seat to.

With my .357, I've had nothing but success with the 158gr Action bullets and want to try my own SWC for this caliber. The many different kinds of body/shank styles has me confused though: tumble lube vs wax groove, bevel-base vs flat-base etc.

The very nature of casting implies I want to keep it cheap initially. I was looking at Lee 2-cavity moulds and bullet sizing dies for use in my Lee Classic 4-hole Turret Press. Please share anything that will educate me...I'm very fresh to this!

Thank you =D

~ Jech

I have been casting bullets and reloading for sixty years. During one five year period, I cast the bullets, reloaded, and shot 75,000 .45 ACP's in IPSC Competition at a high level.

My 1911's were properly throated and I used SWC's almost exclusively. However, I do have some experience with non-throated pistols. Lee has an excellent bullet in the 230 gr Truncated Cone. I recommend the regular lube version. Until you get a lube/sizer you can pan lube or use Lee's liquid alox (yes, it works with standard lube grooves also - but I prefer lubing with a lube/sizer for efficiency).

I recommend that you get Lee's six cavity moulds. They are much better quality than their two cavity moulds and you will be able to run a much higher level of production. I just recently bought a Lee six cavity for the .452-230-TC (normal lube groove) bullet and was able to cast 20 lbs of finished bullets (about six hundred) in 45 minutes using a bottom pour pot. Those were near perfect bullets and I only had to discard a few for defects (under 1/2 dozen).

Lee also offers a really effective 158 gr Round Flat design for the .38 Special/.357 Magnum. I can recommend this bullet without reservation.

When you get your .45 TC bullets cast and start to load them, remove the barrel from your pistol and use it for a cartridge gauge. Seat the bullet until the base of the loaded round is flush with the barrel hood (hold the barrel vertical with the chamber up for this test). The bullet will feed as well as a GOOD round nose and has the advantage of a flat nose for terminal effect.

The Lee bullet sizing dies work very well and your choice of the Lee Classic Turret press is well advised. That is excellent equipment. Write me direct (by Private Message with your Email address) and I'll send you an article I did on pan lubing for a magazine. It will help you get started with a minimum of aggravation.

Dale53

I have a Security-Six that just loves Lee's 158gr LRNFP. The boolit mould model # is 358-158-RF. I use the 6-cavity mould and bang out lots of great boolits in a hurry.

I don't have a picture of this mould, but I do have some of my 452-200-RF mould and the resulting boolits. Just imagine this boolit, but skinnier, and you have the 0.358" version.

The boolit (a 3-image slideshow):

http://img155.imagevenue.com/img.php..._122_455lo.jpg

And the mould:

http://img148.imagevenue.com/img.php..._122_141lo.jpg

I also have a SP101 and have had trouble getting a plain base boolit to shoot without leading. It is the only revolver that I have had the problem with so I finally opted for a gas checked boolit and all is good now. My gun may well be a problem in itself but I'd still suggest you try a gas check boolit. I haven't had good luck with tumble lube grooves but others swear by them. The Lyman 358156 150 grain SWC is an old favorite with many and I believe Lee has a very similar design. I have had the best luck in 45ACP with a TC design boolit in everything with the least problem, semi auto and revolvers. You mileage may vary but that's my 2 cents worth. Likely others will suggest other boolits. :bigsmyl2:

Edd

Jech, welcome to the best forum on the 'Net for cast bullet shooters. Lot's of folks here willing to share their experiences. I would recommend you take a little time browsing through the Classics and Stickies section as a lot of newby questions are covered there.

I'll share a few opinions but remember that free advice is often worth what you pay for it.

1. A lot of folks use Lee equipment, including me. The low cost is very attractive and has enabled a lot of people to get into the game. I have a lot of Lee bullet molds along with molds from other commercial vendors. Some of the best bullet designs I use are Lees. Be aware though that with the low price their are some things that you might need to do to get them to work at top efficiency and to prolong their useful life. Bullplate lube (see the bottom of the page for Bullshop products) is in my opinion the best lube for all types of molds, but is almost indispensible for aluminum molds. Don't follow the instructions Lee sends with their molds telling you to use bullet lube as a mold lube, it will eventually bake on and gunk up your molds.

2. I don't use tumble lube bullets but a lot of folks do. Some swear by them, others swear at them. I have an old Lyman lubri-sizer that I bought cheap and rebuilt so I've never tried tumble lubing. You can use the Lee push through dies and then pan lube bullets that have conventional lube grooves.

3. Lee molds usually need deburring as the low cost precludes a lot of hand finishing at the factory. Check for Lee-menting in the C and S section for this.

4. There is a bullet exchange section here for folks to swap bullets so you can try out different designs before you invest in a new mold. And a lot of the folks here will be glad to send you some free bullets to try, usually for the price of postage, because we were all new casters at one time and we all want new members to enjoy the casting experience.

5. Invest in a few loading manuals and use the online resources the powder manufacturers make available to help you work up loads. I know you said you are already reloading using commercial cast but as you try out various new bullet styles and weights its necessary to stay safe. The Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook also contains a wealth of information concerning alloys, casting techniques and so forth and will help build your knowledge base.

6. Pay attention to safety and the use of Personal Protective Equipment (PPE). Just like shooting, casting is a fun hobby and can be done safely but it is also capable of hurting you if you don't do thing the right way and use the right equipment.

7. When you post a question it will help us help you if you give as many details as possible. A question such as "my .357 mag loads are leading my barrel" doesn't give us much to work with. "I'm using so-and-so bullets cast from air cooled wheel weights and sized to .358 over a powder charge of XXX in my SP101 and I'm getting leading at the forcing cone" is much more helpful.

Lots of folks will add to this I'm sure. Once again welcome.

Thank you all for the very warm welcome =D I can't wait to get my proverbial feet wet.

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When you post a question it will help us help you if you give as many details as possible

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Be careful what you wish for ;) I irritate my wife to the limits of her sanity with how methodical, analytical and detailed I can be :P

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I don't use tumble lube bullets but a lot of folks do. Some swear by them, others swear at them.

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From the stuff I've dug up on youtube/etc, it seems like pan-lubing is theoretically cheaper...using home-brewed recipes instead of forking out cash for Lee Liquid Alox etc.

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I'd still suggest you try a gas check boolit.

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Here's my recipe for a great thumper to abuse your hand with...

-Missouri Bullet Co "Action!" 158gr 18BHN keith-style LSWC bullets
-16gr Hodgdon H-110
-CCI #550 magnum small pistol primers
-Remington brass from factory-new ammo, only been in my gun
-Seated with a COAL of 1.595, heavy crimp applied after seating by a Lee FCD

I have zero leading and one giant grin when I touch them off :)

Sounds like you've got a great load and you've paid attention to all the details. That's great. I know I didn't answer your question about bullet styles but since your original post implied that you were new to casting (as opposed to loading and shooting, which you seem to have a good grasp of) I was hoping to share a little more general information about casting to help you out.

Dale 53 is an old hand here and always offers good advice. I have a SAECO mold that drops a .45 230 gr truncated cone bullet that works great and as far as I can tell the Lee version is just as good and a whole lot cheaper. Ditto on the 6 cavity vs 2 cavity Lees, I much prefer the 6 cavity versions.

I've used GC bullets in several calibers but because of the cost of GCs if I can get a plain base version to work I use it instead. But sometimes a GC slug is the only thing that will work in some guns.

I've been wanting to try the 358-158 RF but just haven't gotten around to getting one yet but I've seen a lot of good reports here on it.

In a round nose .45 slug Lee makes a .45 230 gr 1R conventional lube slug but be aware that the profile isn't very close to regular hardball profile and some people have reported problems with them. The 230 gr 2R TL slug is closer but it has a shoulder and you said you had some problems with those so it might not work in your gun.

For a lighter weight plinker I've had great success with the 358-125 RN in .38, .357, and 9mm (My Hi Power likes .358 slugs). The bullet doesn't look like the pictures in the catalogs, the nose is longer and mine has no bevel base.

Just a few thoughts. Wish you success with your efforts.

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I'll send you an article I did on pan lubing for a magazine. It will help you get started with a minimum of aggravation.

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PM sent.

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Sounds like you've got a great load and you've paid attention to all the details.

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I've been handloading .45acp and .357mag since May. I still have a lot to learn but it's reassuring to hear that I'm on the right path! Lately, I've been trying to resolve some sporadic chamber leading I was getting with my XD, I think my .45acp seating/taper die was set too deep in my turret. Tapering/seating at the same time was causing some shaving with thicker-walled cases. I shoot mixed headstamp for the time being so it didn't always happen making it a little trickier for me to track down.

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Lee makes a .45 230 gr 1R conventional lube slug...some people have reported problems with them...The 230 gr 2R TL slug is closer but it has a shoulder and you said you had some problems with those

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I should clarify there I think. The biggest thing that really turned me off with those MBC 452-230 RN bullets was if that shoulder perfectly flush or even slightly recessed from the case mouth, my FCD would squish into the bullet. When I pulled the bullets from a few dummies, it looked like the FCD cut it's own "crimp groove" even though I was only using it to remove the bell. Would that be what they call unintended swaging? Ensuring that shoulder was flush/tucked kept my OAL at 1.22" or even as low as 1.19" if my FCD was feeling frisky that day and decided to push the bullet in a smidge further.

My uneducated logic says a shoulderless bullet with a more gradual curve (longer ogive?) would allow me to seat with a longer OAL without worrying about accidentally squeezing/shaving the bullet. Does Lee make something like this one here but in a regular wax groove style or is that why the 452-230 TC is such a winner?

Jech;
You've hit the nail on the head! The Lee Truncated Cone 230 gr bullet has all of the design elements that you desire with the benefit of a flat nose. I would be EXTREMELY surprised if you have any feeding problems with this bullet.

Dale53

I'd keep it simple. Try moulds that are close to known bullets that work. After you learn a little you can branch out and try other stuff. You can even swap boolits with someone that has ones you want to try.

I started with the 44 caliber, only got one to start. And then look what happened!

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g8...s/44list-1.jpg

a few more and I can shoot a different one every day of the month. :)

sorry I'm not much help.

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Originally Posted by Blammer

sorry I'm not much help.

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Not true at all! You've gotten me excited at the prospect of never running out of something new to try [smilie=w: At the same time, I'm pretty sure my wife just got a sinking feeling in the pit of her stomach thinking about how much this hobby will cost as the years add up :twisted:

P.S. "hobby" seems like such an inadequate term >.>

Blammer;
That's a nice line-up of .44 bullet styles. I suppose that you need all those different designs? NOT ME, I have less than eighty different bullet moulds, it COULDN'T be me... NO SIRREE!!:confused::confused::confused:

Isn't it amazing how many different bullet designs there are and for some reason we only need "Just one more..."

Dale53

yep, so it's kinda difficult for me to answer a question on 'what one mould would you recommend....'

I could recommend one to START with.. :)

for the 45, I'd probably start with this one.

452374, after being dug out of a piece of wood

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g8...s/DSCN7450.jpg

or one of these

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g8...P/DSCN7746.jpg

+1 on the Lee 230 gr TC. Never tried it in an XD...only 'cause I don't own one...but have shot it for years and found it accurate and reliable in all four of my "hardball" Gov't Models and my S&W 25.

Have put two or three thousand assorted CBs through my 3" .357 SP101...everything from mild 148 WCs to full house 160gr Keiths...without any leading issues. Haven't tried it but the Lee 158 RNFP should be a good all-around selection.

Bill

I'd suggest taking a look at the Lyman 452460; it's a 200 grain SWC that was designed to feed through unaltered 1911s. I realize that you're not shooting a 1911, but IMHO, this is a simply outstanding bullet. I only wish that Lee offered the same design in a 6-cavity mold!

Lee 452-228-1R, get it in a six-cavity since the two-cavity verson has trouble making good bases, and isn't as accurate as boolits cast from the six-banger. Handles are NOT included, get them for and extra 12-13 bucks. I have had 13 different 45 caliber pistol moulds and this one is my favorite for the 1911s.

Lee 452-230-TC, cycles well, easy to cast, gives paper plate accuracy in FOUR different .45 ACPs with I forgot how many different powders, charge weights, seating depths, etc. I finally gave the mould to a friend and he does ok with it shooting steel at short range.

Lee 358-158-SWC, hard to beat, especially in a six-cavity mould, again since it has a plain base and sharp, clean bases are crucial to good accuracy. For some reason, the thicker, aluminum sprue plates on the six-bangers hold heat and work better.

Gear

Hi Jech,

Welcome!

You might want to play with the overall length before giving up on the SWC. The max overall length only applies to a ball profile bullet like the Lyman 452374. I shoot Saeco 200 gr SWCs for Steel Plate and load them to 1.250 OAL. That gives just enough shoulder exposed beyond the brass to give a soft spot to take the beating at the cartridge mouth as it's slammed into the chamber. The truncated cone is designed to have the same contact points with the ramp and chamber as the John Browning profile ball bullet. It looks very different but alledgedly the geometry is the same. The published OAL for ball ammo (1.285 if I remember correctly- I'm on a biz trip tonight and don't have access to my books) makes sense when you compare the shape of the inside of the magazine to the outside shape of the bullet. A SWC loaded to the same length will contact the inside of the mag and not feed well, if at all, so a shorter OAL is in order. I have a truncated cone mold and the Lyman 452374. Both feed very reliably. I have some Lee molds like almost everyone else but find that cast iron or leaded steel molds are more forgiving. Also more expensive. +1 on the Bullplate lube suggestion, especially for aluminum molds. The Bullplate lube allows you to open the mold sooner without getting lead smeared on the sprue plate and top of the mold which keep the mold hotter, a necessary element for success with aluminum molds like the Lee. You can't believe how far a little Bullplate goes until you use it. I bought 2 bottles, in case I ever spill one. I hope I live long enough to use it all! Welcome to casting!

David

I would also recommend the 230 TC (non tl design), feeds in just about anything. Do get it in a 6 cavity, my 2 banger just can't keep up with 2 1911's in the family...

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Originally Posted by geargnasher

Lee 452-230-TC, cycles well, easy to cast, gives paper plate accuracy

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What do you mean specifically by paper plate accuracy? Everyone has their own jargon and I'm still picking it all up. I assume this means groups would fit on a paper plate at 25 yards :confused:

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Originally Posted by David2011

You might want to play with the overall length before giving up on the SWC. The max overall length only applies to a ball profile bullet like the Lyman 452374.

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How could I ever give up on the target shooter's best friend? I shoot IDPA through my local gun club and in my first match alone I can think of half a dozen situations where my time suffered because I couldn't see my hits clearly on overly-pasted targets. I've heard others say seating at 1.27+ mostly resolves the issues that the SA XD has but haven't gotten my hands on any SWC bullets to try myself yet.

I need to do more research on different SWC styles before choosing so if anyone has some first-hand experience getting them to work with their XD, I would be most grateful :)