What's the weak spot on the Lyman 4500?
That stinkin' die nut. Yep, cross-threaded and stripped out. And the cost of a new body casting is $100.
I'm peeved at myself for not paying close enough attention... that's the worst part.
Dutch
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What's the weak spot on the Lyman 4500?
That stinkin' die nut. Yep, cross-threaded and stripped out. And the cost of a new body casting is $100.
I'm peeved at myself for not paying close enough attention... that's the worst part.
Dutch
Sorry to hear about the unfortunate. A thought maybe would be to work the threads down just enough to allow the nut to slide in and out of the housing. I wouldn’t over do it so there isn’t any slop but just enough to have a tight slide in and out. It would be easiest to work the retaining nut’s threads and would be the way I would go. Next you would need to drill and tap two set screws on both sides of the housing body so they can catch the retaining nut and lock everything into place.
I've never done it but it seems like a possibility anyway.
I've worried about that happening to my sizers, too. I usually insert a sizer die into the body with the retaining nut FULLY-seated flush on top of the die, and GENTLY start it with the nut wrench. My mentor Leo Reyes showed me that method, and has yet to fail me--KNOCK ON WOOD.
this is why i mourn ye olde #45 passing ,if u have a machinist friend u mite could have a custom nut made one thread size bigger on the outside and retain the same inside dimensions and then tap the body for it prolly equal priced as the casting tho :(
With the casting body that expensive I would just buy a new sizer instead. Then just use the old one for back up parts.
I doubt if they do, but you can always see if there is a helicoil kit for it. Or see about a custom steel insert so it doesn't happen again.
You may find that the threads of the casting are harder
and in better shape than the threads on the nut -
that was my experience.
If they are even semi OK, it may be worth it to try a replacement
nut and see if you can save it. When I told them my nut was
stripped, but the body wasn't, Lyman sent me one nut for free!
I was warned that if it didn't work, they couldn't do
anything else warranty-wise.
It worked.
Nowadays I install the top punch, fit the nut to the top of the die,
slide it on the top punch, and gently seat the whole assembly
into the body and use the top punch and the bottom of the ram
against the nut to line it up and keep it straight, using just
gentle pressure the whole time until it is in contact with the body.
Then I turn the nut backwards until I feel the "click" of the threads
to find the starting leade and, still against the ram, start the nut,
with fingers and then a large open end wrench when too tight
for fingers, and finish off with the Lyman wrench with the ram up.
It tightens up fine and has worked well for three years now.
In the very worst case, clean it up, epoxy or JB weld in your
favorite caliber die, and make it a dedicated machine for that
diameter, that way you can still get some use out of it.
Hope this helps you....
..
I use a method like 9.3X62AL's. I've had my Lyman 450 since 1972 and haven't cross threaded anything yet.
I`ve been doing it the same way as Cord described above for many years. I`ve used the same procedure with RCBS lubers and my 2 Lyman 450`s, haven`t had a problem.Robert
Since I have a machine shop at home the first thing naturally was to looksee if there was a good way to fix this. NOT! You can't get perpendicular to the surface due to the ram guide in the casting. I can usually see a way to do things like this but I'm not seeing it with this. I'll give it some more perusal and see if I can come up with something.
I actually rather like the 4500. I used a pair of 45 for 25 years and came to really hate them. Part of that hate was the older stepped dies and pure linotype boolits.
Dutch
Makes me glad I have a Star, don't have a nut 'cause the pressure is always pushing down.
Could you drill and tap the front of the casting for a set screw like the 45 has?
As CORD mentuioned, same thing happened to me. Also the top of my pressure screw head finally stripped out. I replaced both it & the die nut and it works just fine--I bought it in 1980.
Seems to me both parts are not up to the task, then again it did last for 30 years and I probablay sized 500,000 bullets with it--so perhaps I am too much of a whiner...
No doubt--if that die nut had thicker, coarse threads and the pressure screw had a larger head both would not have failed...ok so I am whining!
Not exactly as the die retaining nut is a sort of threaded sleeve that surrounds and interacts with the O-ring on the sizing die body.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elkins45
But your suggestion made me think for a second... If I made a new sleeve with no threads, just a slip fit, and put in a divet/detent sort of spot for a setscrew to seat it may function that way. All things considered it's the only thing that's come to mind as a repair so far.
I have to edit in a 2nd thought.... 2 setscrews 180 degrees apart on each side. Much mo'better!
danke doo
Dutch
With my 450 (which I despise compared to the 45) I make it a habit to warm the casting with a blow drier. Makes inserting the die and nut much easier. And I do it pretty much like Al says using the ram as a guide.
I still like the 45 better. And the RCBS better yet.
Bret's heating to soften the lube, then Cord's 'back it up until it clicks with gentle top pressure'
is how I do it.
One additional aid - when I get the 'Click' the first time - I stop and grind a tiny notch on the
front of the nut to use as an alignment aid the next time. Usually I warm the housing slightly,
then drop in die and nut, then apply a load with a handy socket between the top
punch and nut, and then only back up about 1/8 turn from mark and then start. The mark
helps a lot.
Sorry you stripped it, but I do think that a smooth sided nut replacement with two setscrew
holes (maybe a ball end tip on the setscrews?) would work well, possibly even easier than
the original setup.
Bill
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutchman
Thats what I was saying and if the threads are for sure hosed on the housing unit this would be the next best thing. Bill also has a good idea on making the ends of the set screws rounded.Quote:
Originally Posted by RobS
Since you have a machine shop and it by the sounds of things you have a lathe: Once you make a "slip" lube die retaining sleeve as I’ll call it and have the housing tapped you could put the sleeve into the machine and tighten down the set screws enough to leave marks. Next take the die sleeve out and turn it on the lathe where the set screws are aligned that way there is a small groove all the way around it for the screws to lock into. I would imagine this would be easier than trying to line up a divot/detent as you had suggested.
This thread needs to be Stickied, methinks. Another example of Cast Boolits and its membership at their best. I've been pouring boolits for 29 years, and gained knowledge by following along here.
Cord's method is a better explanation of how I install the die, and adds refinements that I'll incorporate into my gig. Many thanks for the expanded details, sir!
Bret--how does the RCBS LAM II differ with respect to the die retainer compared to the Lyman? I'm pondering a second tool, and if the retainer method is sturdier--RCBS will get the nod.
Al,
I have the older RCBS lubrisizer, it has a nut very much like the Lyman but a cast iron body
and I think (far away from the machines, can't check) a bit coarser threads. Not certain
this is the same as the newer model.
The notch in the nut to get it clocked correctly to start is very helpful, as is the uniform down
pressure from the socket driven by the top punch or even the bare top punch holder against a
socket. This keeps the nut flat and applies uniform downforce, and then you have the clocking
pretty accurate to start with the notch -- it saves a lot of fiddling and a lot of fear of stripping
the darned thing.
Bill
What Bill said, the threads are coarser or differ some other way that makes it easier to start the nut. I've never looked to see the difference. Never really thought about it either. Darn, now I'm gonna have to look...
If you're gonna buy a sizer I'd hunt around for the older RCBS with the ratchet top for the lube feed. Much nicer IMO than the chintzy toggle.
Thanks for the clarification, Bill and Bret. That toggle won't be a problem for me, I use a box-end wrench on the current Lyman 450 in place of the ratchet, because I back the pressure off 1/3 turn between boolits as I'm sizing. Much less leakage that way.
What part of the sizer are you getting leakage from?Quote:
Originally Posted by 9.3X62AL
That sleeve is thin. I don't know if it could support a groove like that. Other than that it's a good way to mark the spot for the little indents on each side of the slip lube die retaining sleeve. Dang, it takes longer to write that than to make one.Quote:
Originally Posted by RobS
Dutch
Did you think of doing the old field expedient trick of getting another nut, grinding or cutting a cutting edge on it and using it as a tap to chase the threads? Or maybe just call Lyman and see what they'd charge to chase the threads? I'd at least find out what the thread is and see if a tap could be borrowed or rented. Once the threads were chased and new nut obtained I'd do the thumbscrew thing.
Instead of the groove why not just drill holes thru it that align with the set screws? It would require precision when you install it but should work otherwise.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutchman
a thought ( tho thoughts are a dime a dozen lolz ) if u made a new one and used the dual set screws couldnt one machine it kind of like the breech block and twist lock on the lee and hornady press inserts ? ie: a couple of grooves and stubs( set screws) ??? that would have to be a faster change out .......
The threads are stripped at several points in the casting itself. I really think the body threads are unusable for this purpose anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bret4207
That die retaining nut is very thin. IMO, it was a poor or insufficient design. It needs more beef.
Dutch
This would probably work ok. I'll consider doing it this way when the time comes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elkins45
Dutch
There's just not enough to work with for this idea. It's not a bad idea but I don't think it's viable for this situation. Faster isn't a factor. Secure is what's important.Quote:
Originally Posted by fryboy
Dutch
Dutchman,
If you are up for the machine work, make a bushing set to replace the top punch
rod with an inner rod to drive and align a line boring hand driven tool. Single point
out the old threads, or just leave them and use a home made non-standard tap
to recut bigger and slightly coarser threads. Then make a nice beefy new retaining
nut to whatever size & pitch you wind up with. Basically make a line boring rig in
the top bore and recut the threads that way. Come to think of it, you'd have the
world's most accurate 4500 if you did it this way! ;-)
Gonna be a bunch of machine work but like the man said "If some man made it,
some other man can fix it."
Only worth it if you have more time than money, but it can be salvaged. Your
'exhange rate' between time and money is set by you and any potential
"fun factor" you might see in the job, or maybe the opportunity to have an
extra accurate alignment between top punches and the dies.
Might a RCBS nut be bigger outside so you could buy the nut (which will fit on
the inside - same die sizes) and then make a short little tap?
Bill
Yep! What he said. I have done mine (Lachmiller) that way for for 40 years. That being said and the new nut idea does not work I would go with the set screw idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cord
I trained a Lyman jr Press to accept standard shell holders that way
Yeah, that's how I do it, very carefully. I have one other refinement - I lay the spanner across the nut, and lower the ram on to it, and press the die in. I know the ram alignment might not be 100% but its close enough to pretty much guarantee squareness. The fine thread plus the big diameter plus lube caking the threads invites cross threading if you don't get it right. I've wondered what I'd do with a crossed thread. Not impossible to repair but so awkward in my opinion that it is not worth the effort.Quote:
Originally Posted by 9.3X62AL
This suggests if a feller or gal was about to buy one to buy an RCBS. With their record of replacement at no cost, if this would happen to the RCBS you wouldn't be out the cost of a replacement.
Just a thought...
I have both RCBS and Lyman but use my Star for all plain base pistol bullets.
I DO like either the RCBS or Lyman for gas checked bullets.
Dale53
Hope Dutch can fix his.
I have 2 RCBS lubers and invert a shellholder on top of the nut and use a large top punvh, then lower the top punch onto the shellholder and it squares up the nut.
Do as others and back up the nut until it clicks.
PM Lathesmith and see if he will make you a slightly oversized nut that will cut new threads in the casting body. He made me an oversized lube plunger for one of my Star lubersizers that had a worn bronze bushing and it works like a champ!