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Loaded some 40sw up using the famous 193 grain BTS 40sw bullet.
4.5 reddot
cci small pistol primer
1.135 OAL
I haven't chrono the round yet. Accuracy was poor. 8" group at 15 yards. I saw sargenv's results. Just wondering if anyone else has had a chance to work up a load that is accurate. I have lots of reddot, greendot and promo. Would like to hear of others results.
I have my 10mm tuned in. Shooting under 1" at 50 yards consistently.
I an using enough Bullseye to get to 1100 fps. I am going to try to load some hot/extra long loads with Longshot, but have too many projects at the moment.
I haven't benchrested this load in my Taurus PT 24/7 with a 3" bbl.
BUT, offhand at 50 feet, I typically get a 4 inch pattern.
I like AA #5 for this bullet because it is a very dense powder.
which means you need the Least amount of powder, measured in CC's
compared to other powders that are recommended for 40 S&W with a heavy bullet.
my pet Load for the 193 gr. Swage in 40 S&W is 6.1 gr. of AA #5
Approach any other loads for 40 S&W with caution !
since 1/3 of the bullet weight is brass which is much
lighter then Lead, it makes these bullets longer.
So when seating them to the Max. SAAMI OAL=1.135"
the case capacity is limited, Most starting charges for
other powders will be a compressed charge or dang close to it.
which could cause pressure issues.
Jon
PS. If someone is loading these in a Glock, and loading them from used brass of unknown history, whereas the possibly of it having been previously shot from a Glock, Be advised, that the potential "Glock Bulge" should be removed before sizing. Of course this is a given, but I believe it is even more important with these longer projectiles and possible high pressure issues.
I get great results using 200 grain cast/3.8 grains of Winchester Super Target/1.135 OAL.
I will be trying bluedot in a carbine soon. Also tracked down a EAA Witness 40 cal pistol I will try too. I'm sure we can find a load that will do better.
That doesnt sound like just a bad load, somethings not right. 8 inches at 15 yd! whats the dia of the boolits? Key holing?
No keyholes. Bullets are micing at .3995. It's gotta be with the load somewhere. I really want these bullets to work. Just need to find the right combo.
I think you need to have a .401/.402 diameter if you want any accuracy from a 40 caliber shooting cast bullets.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hometek
There talking about jacketed bulletsQuote:
Originally Posted by davidalyn
I found that when I pushed them to only about 700-750 fps that they would keyhole or otherwise not fly straight. Once I pushed them up past about 900-950 fps and up to about 1150 fps, I found them to be quite accurate. Off hand holding a S&W 610 I could put them all on target into 3-4 inches at 25 yards. Definitely accurate enough for action shooting. I never got one hole groups but for my uses, one hole groups were not neccesary. My load data is sitting in another thread around here somewhere. I used Hodgdon Longshot and they seemed to run out of steam right about 1150 fps. I have not tried Blue Dot (but want to) and I could likely try some of the other slow burners like power pistol, SR 4756, SR 7625, Herco, and the like. I was however loading them to 10 mm length so that I would have an adequate internal capacity for the slower burners.
Personally I think Bullseye is way too fast to use but to each their own..
Well let this be a lesson to me. When taking a long time to repply or uploading pics and such post the long repply then edit it or post additional replies so when the computer takes a dump you don't loose all you have typed. SO again I will type my results shooting the 190 Grain BTS 40 cal bullet from my new 40S&W HiPoint carbine.
What do you all think about blowing a 30-30 case out to take one of these bullets? Create the 40-30? It would be a perfectly straight walled case.
Green river makes a 40 cal barrel cheap, but it uses a 1 in 40 twist, not suitable for these. By my math you would need at least a 1 in 24" twist. Douglas lists a blank with a 1 in 16" but they aren't exactly cheap.
Anybody have a beater Marlin 336 they want to donate for the cause.
Finally for the first time this year I was able to go out and do some shooting of my own. Broke in the new 40 S&W HyPoint carbine with the 190 grain BTS bullets. Shot from the hood of the truck at a distance of 35 yrds. Had 1 power red dot scope mounted and used Bluedot for the powder.
I set the powder dispencer to throw a charge of no more then 8 grains and no less then 7.5 grains of BlueDot powder. It does not seem to meter as smoothly as other powders. I did not measure any after it was set. Yes I normally would but I suppose you could say this gives us the greatest margine of error with the concistancy of this load and results should only improve when I get serious and moniter the charge weight exactly with each case.
From the pics you can see I was able to group 18 rounds within 2.5 inches and 14 out of 18 went less then 1.5 inches. I am certainly more then happy with these results and believe it to be a bullet certainly capible of more then acceptable accuracy.
I suspect that results will be even better when I sit down behind a bench, a good rest, a higher power scope and a bit of load development. I am certainly happy with the results of these bullets and believe they will shoot very well. As with any bullet I am sure some load development and experimentaion may be needed to get best results. I imagine as more shooters report with results from these bullets we will find severial good loads. IMO a slower powder may work best.
The pink target represents shots 20-30 from the new barrel and the yellow represents shots 150-160 with no cleaning inbetween.
These bullets where made with my one step die system and used wheel weight alloy for the core. The alloy makes for a very tough bullet and pure lead would certainly expand better. I was able to pass threw 18" of wet newspapper. Water filled milk jugs got some expansion and impressive explosions but did not recover any bullets yet. Steel plate 1/4" thick stoped them though at 50 yrds. Pics you see of mushroom bullet was what is left after colliding with steel plate. Bullet that did not expand was recovered from wet newspaper after passing threw 6" of silicon that someone left at range. Made heck of a thump though.
I did not crony these loads yet but as I was just out for a bit of fun with the new gun but I certainly plan to do some extensive range testing to see what they are really capible of for accurace and expansion. I imagine FPS was in neighborhood of 950- 1050. I'll check for sure with crony next time out. Even when shot at steel plate they retained at least 60 grains (weight of jacket :) )
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...r/P1030335.jpg
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...r/P1030346.jpg
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...r/P1030344.jpg
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...r/P1030349.jpg
I look foward to cutting these groups in half and going a bit longer with them. Hoping for under 6" at 100 yrds. Maybe a long shot (pun intended) but we shall see. Certainly good enough accuracy for close in.
Good shooting guys. Certainly more to come. Swage On!
BT
Some interesting cases have been used and discused with the 40 for sure. I have certainly spent a bit of time thinking it over. I have researhed some 416 data with the 30-06 and equal results from teh 284 necked up. The 284 necked up to 40 would certaily be a tumper on shoulder and taget. I may have to look at the 30-30 case a bit now. I know I have some laying around I'll neck it up and see what it looks like. could be pretty interesting. Have heard the 308 necked up to 40 is pretty impressive. Imagine these bullets in some of these cases would be pretty impressive.
I'll have to research the twist rate of my carbine but I think it may be 1 in 16. certainly want a a faster twist to stabilize the bigger bullets.
The 450 Bushmaster (aka Thumper) takes a .452" bullet. Bullet weights are normally between 185-300g. These ride on +/- 38g of Lil' Gun powder typically. With my factory ammo that I use I was able to shoot a 1.4" 5 shot group off the tailgate of the truck when I was checking scope zero. It's not uncommon to achieve 1MOA accuracy with rifle at 200 yards, but it quickly dies out after 250 yards. I bet this would be a great candidate for these heavier rounds.
Below is some pictures of the little piggies that were playing in my stock tank last month. The first one dropped at 145 yards ... the second one ran away, but stopped to let his buddy get up. He dropped at 175 yard (according to range finder afterward). I have the rifle scoped in at 2" high at 100 yards so that it is 2" low at 200 yards. The really really dead pig was the one at 175 yards ... bullet entered 2" below the ear and exited through his teeth. I tracked the trajectory of the bullet after exiting the pigs mouth ... for 3'-4' I was finding teeth and jaw bone pieces. About 20' from where the pig lay was a smashed limestone that the bullet has exploded. I was hoping to find the remains of the bullet but evidently when it hit the rock it vaporized.
Sarg
Sarg
Grusome results. Red shows up pretty good on black hair.
Hometec,
Did a bit of looking into reloading for the 40 S&W. I must say that RedDot is a VERY FAST burning powder in my opinion for the 40. Even with light bullets. I have the one book/ one caliber reloading manual for the 40 and it lists the info from all the major reloading books into one book and it did not mention Red Dot in the 40. DO be carefull should you continue with using this powder. I'm sure there is someone out there that will say "I have been using it for years" or whatever but I would use powders in the slowest recemended burn rates for the 180 or 200 grain bullets in the 40 S&W with these BTS bullets.
I am new to the 40 reloading but have loaded for a long time. It just makes sence to not use a fast burning powder behind a heavy bullet. Ever try and flick a bowling ball real hard and fast with your finger (fast powder/heavy bullet)? Me neither! How about shot put a wiffle ball (slow powder light bullet)?
I can understand using what might be avialable on hand but I would be willing to bet a slower powder will be a heck of a lot safer and probably produce better results. I certainly would not want anyone to hurt themself loading a bullet made by someone else because of using a powder that may not be best suited for these custom bullets!
Here is just a quick link to powder burn rates. Check out where some of the above mentioned powders fall in this chart.
http://www.reloadbench.com/burn.html
Good shooting and be safe.
BT
that Link didn't list AA #5 ???
I would assume it's around HS-5
not near as slow as Blue dot or AA#7 or AA#9
Jon
Wow that is an odd burn rate chart. (Odd as in wrong) What really jumped out at me is they list Hodgdon Titegroup (12) as faster than Hodgdon Clays(16)
Looking at Hodgdons burn rate chart and they list otherwise.
http://www.hodgdon.com/burn-rate.html
Ive reloaded the 40 a lot and what BT touched on is correct. Its a small case so its sensitive to changes in volume. One of the swaged bullets may not be as heavy as but will have the volume of a heavier bullet so load accordingly and watch the OAL.
Also the 40 runs quite well with 180's and fast powders; but does not have the velocity potential as with the slower powders (and less of a safety margin)
Yeh I noticed it did not have AA#5 either. I simply googled powder burn rates and it was one of first to come up. Guess I'll have to find different one. The RedDot did show up as a fast powder,that was really all I was looking to show.
I just shot a bunch of these a few minutes ago. Loaded them with 21 gr. of 296. They hit like a ten pound hammer on both ends of the muzzle. Suckers were vicious. Not trying to hijack a thread, just thought I would make a comment since it was on the table.....Joel
OOppssss... Sorry guys, just read the thread, I was shooting 44's made from 40 S&W cases...... I'm way off the topic.....I'll leave now....
No, that's fine. The more info out on these new bullets the better.Quote:
Originally Posted by acemedic13
Brian:
Needs a little more Blue Dot.
People loading the 40 should stay away from the fast powders. For a heavy / long bullet, start with the slow powder in the handbook - it is much more forgiving.
Compressed charges are a good thing. I don't know where the idea started that this was an issue. Many great shooting loads with jacketed bullets are compressed charges of slow powder.
One of the more impressive 1911 explosions I have seen was done with Red Dot. It can be touchy stuff in a 45acp. I think I would avoid it in a 40.
B.