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In the final stages to load up some Lee 1 ounce slugs. I will be using Winchester AA's and maybe some Rem RXP's in the future.
Is there any published load data for Lee slugs out there, books or web?
I found some data on the Hodgon Data Resource web page and Lee's instructions.
You can download Lee data from their website...
http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi-data.../SM%203529.pdf
I'm in the process of doing the same thing. I have a ton of Rem green sure shot hulls, WW12 wads, CCI 209 primers & 4lbs of Univesal Clays. I've been researching powder charges and have narrowed it down to 23.5gr of UC. Does that sound about right to you fellers? I've seen it as high as 28.0gr but that was using high brass hulls & different wads.
I'm not expecting any earth shattering results. If I can get them to hit within a 6" circle at 50yds, I'll be happy.
The 5th edition of Reloading for Shotgunners has "published" data for the Lee slug, but it entails exactly the same loads Lee Precison includes in the instructions for the mold.
I use a variety of shotload recipes, with a mixed bag of results. 7625 loads were pretty darned good out to 50 yards using Rem hulls and WAA wads. Unique gave me some very good groups with a bunch of different hulls and wads. For the faster loads HS-6 worked better for me than did Universal, but all guns are different. My next range trip(when that will be I don't know, I'm recuperating from a broken knee cap...just clumsy) will include a try at Longshot. I'll let you know how that turns out, when I finally get out to do it.
The 5th edition of Reloading for Shotgunners has "published" data for the Lee slug, but it entails exactly the same loads Lee Precison includes in the instructions for the mold.
This is what I am wondering. I haven't hit the community library yet for old books; I think they have a few. I just wondered about maybe Lyman or the Lee book. I would also like to find some specific stuff on #00 buckshot loads too. I figure most here have more books on the reload bench than I.
I have printed the Lee instructions and several pages of loads form the Hodgon Reloading Resource database.
You will find no Lee data in any Lyman book.....I get the idea those two companies are a bit over-competative--to put it nicely. I have read the latest version of Lee's Modern Reloading from cover to cover. There is no slug data in it, only a mention of the molds available and that they come with tested data. I'm always searching for articles and data on the Lee slug. While some older a "Digest" books mention them in articles, I've never found anything worth recommending. If you ever do I'd love to know about it.
I haven't bought a Lee mold at this time. I have about a 100 to play with from a recent trade.
What about Lyman slug data? (I would rather only spend $20 on a limited use mold rather than more $$ for Lyman)
As you would expect, Lyman manuals have extensive Lyman slug data. The Reloading for Shotgunners book I mentioned earlier also has some data for them. I have loaded a few hundred of these Lyman 525gr slugs I bought from a gunbroker seller. They shoot very well out of a smoothbore with many different recipes. I particularly like SR 4756 for this slug, but Unique and Universal worked great for me too.
If you have the Lee slugs already try them and see how you like them. I have both 7/8 and 1 oz molds, mostly because I am cheap and they fit the bill. I'm loading mostly to shoot at homemade man-sized cardboard targets at 30 yards anyway. I am very satisfied with their performance for this type of play.
It's hard to recommend a slug to anyone because every shotgun shoots slugs differently. I have (8) 12 gauges that have proved that to me. The Lee slug may do everything you want it to do for you. However, if you really want a hunting slug, and only want one mold, the Lyman Sabot mold (as recommended by others in other threads on this board) might be your best bet. Try the Lee's you have first though.
happy sluggin'
LAH
I've settled on 23.5-25.5gr of UC. Going to give it a try.
Like I said earlier I'm not expecting anything tremendous. I live in Texas & nobody here hunts deer with shotguns. I'm just after some pesky hogs & want something that won't go too far. The neighbors really hate bullets wizzing by. Phttt wussies!!!
I want something that doesn't go too far; the neighbors really hate bullets whizzing by?
When I read this, I just had to make a quick comment.
A 230-grain .45 ACP bullet flys at approximately 800 to 850 FPS.
But a Lee 1-ounce slug Warp-12's at 1450 FPS.
And this is not even mentioning the destructive power (eye candy) of an object/target getting hit.
Pretty funny if you think about it.
In Christ: Raymond
PS: I am aware that the Lee slugs drop exponentially after approximately 150-yards or so. But still... :)
Yea, but they gotta be better than a 30-06.:smile:
On the whole "limited range for safety" thing, that all got started a long time ago when a few states started making certain hunting districts "shotgun/muzzle-loader/conventional-handgun only" areas. Well not all of them allowed all those combinations but you get the idea.
Basic idea was that if Bubba shoots at a deer at 50-75 yards and misses and the projectile keeps on going if it's a high powered rifled (such as 30-06) it's going to be traveling for at least 400+ yards before the drop becomes sufficient for the bullet to hit terra-firma assuming a level shot and level ground. Even then when it hits its probably going to skip and go another 300 yards down range considering the angle of impact with the ground and how much energy its still carrying and what percentage of that energy is velocity related.
Change the situation and put a smooth bore 12ga. in Bubba's hands with a foster slug load in the chamber and its more like 200 yards or less until the projectile bites the dust literally. Skip possibility is considerably reduced considering the greater angle and reduced velocity/mass ratio of the energy equation. If it does skip the skip range is further reduced for the exact same reasons.
In principle it does make sense if one assumes 30-06 with full power loads and 12ga. with foster slugs are Bubba's only two choices. Fact is though not everyone is a Bubba and those certainly aren’t the only choices.
If I was personally presented with such hunting conditions and had the choice of any fire-arm I chose to use I would probably use a 458-caliber large meplat flat nose bullet of about 300 grains. I would launch this projectile at about a muzzle velocity of 1,000 fps. Preferred launch platform would be a bolt action carbine using a wild-cat cartridge made from taking a 308-NATO case and cutting down it's length below the shoulder to make a big fat stubby cartridge similar to a 45-70 only shorter and with a modern rimmed base. Powder capacity would be significantly less deliberately to produce the desired velocity using a 90-100% volume powder space charge of modern smokeless powders.
I am confident that such a combination would be superior to a shotgun slug in its ability to humanely harvest game. I am confident that such a combination would be superior to a shotgun slug in its ability to provide even greater down range safety.
Unfortunately, such a gun/cartridge combination would put me at odds with such hunting laws which do not consider the base principle of the idea and are only concerned with bureaucratic details of mindless enforcement of “the rules” without any consideration of “the spirit of the law”. Sounds like a government project don't it?
Whoops!
When I read the above post, I immediately assumed you meant PISTOL bullets, and not RIFLE bullets.
Duh?
Sorry 'bout dat!
In Christ: Raymond
That sounds like a great idea turbo1889. But seeing as I don't have spare $1000.00 laying around for new gun, dies, powder, brass, molds, etc. (just to shoot hogs). I think I'll stick with the slugs.:redneck:
I know exactly what you mean about the money issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadeye
I was just trying to make a point about all the smoke and mirrors that are set up around the whole reduced range = safety thing. The key to effective hunting while reducing collateral damage possibilities down range is large caliber, medium weight, slow velocity, large meplat area flat nose or HP projectiles. It really doesn't matter whether such a projectile is delivered by a shotgun or a rifle. I believe the emphasis should be on producing a highly accurate platform which delivers the minimum acceptable energy and only the minimum acceptable energy for a humane kill on the various N.A. deer species within 100 yards or less. Various built in problems with shotguns, muzzle-loaders, and hand-guns in the accuracy department make them all less then the ideal road to go down to achieve such a desired outcome. A carbine rifle with good sights chambered for the right cartridge design is far more suited to such a task.
Don't get me wrong - I love shotgun slugs and love fiddling with them and they are currently my personal choice for hunting such areas.
However, in a logical world we would probably have already seen a 45 to 50 caliber, straight walled, low-pressure, short and stubby, sub-sonic velocity, standardized rifle cartridge or two with a modern rifle case head produced and offered in quantity, quality, and at a reasonable cost in both ammunition and guns by the major manufactures specifically for hunting such areas. The hunting regs. in place would completely allow such guns for hunting such areas along with similar platforms using either older cartridge designs which accomplish similar ballistics or if one so desired the less suitable shotgun slugs and handguns. In my mind traditional muzzle loader hunting is a whole different ball of wax and there should be a separate season for that. Preferably a late winter post-season after regular rifle hunting like bow season usually is a pre-season before regular rifle season.
The main thing shotgun slugs had going for them in the beginning was that they were a common low cost choice. However, considering the recent developments in slug guns and the specialized ammunition for them and the cost thereof that reason is significantly weakening. I can tell you for sure that if I hadn't started into shotgun slug hunting and hadn’t spent all that money on guns, molds, and load development and had spent your $1,000 estimate on such a custom gun as I describe (would be less in a logical world where it wasn't custom but off the shelf) I would he ahead of the game and have more money in my pocket. But as I said then I'd be in violation of the game regs. which say shotgun/handgun/muzzle loader only. Even though such a gun would be just as safe if not more so.
Interestingly the slugs for safety "wisdom" has been empirically tested. It has been shown that on a level shot, a sabot slug will skip further than a rifle bullet for a longer overall distance.
The report is summarized here:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...g=content;col1
I'm not sure how this would apply to a slug like the LEE though.
It seems to me that modern slug & muzzle loader technology have made that law obsolete. Wasn't it originally meant for smooth bore guns firing traditional slugs? What I know about it would fit on a pin head in bold type. But I can't imagine a Lee slug fired from a smooth bore going any where near as far as a 30-06 round.
A very interesting article, blaster, I commend you for your posting habits on this forum. You don't post very often but when you do it almost always is a very knowledgeable and quality post.Quote:
Originally Posted by blaster
On a side note, I haven’t done any scientific testing but I have fooled around with firing Lyman 525gr. 12ga. Wad-Slugs and factory foster slugs at extended range up at my grandfathers place where I have a huge open area with long range visibility and shooting capabilities provided the cattle cooperate and stay down in the lower marshy section. The Lyman wad-slugs loaded to muzzle velocities of about 1,400-1,500fps can be lobbed like artillery out beyond about 200 yards (visual guestimate) with a slight visible angle to the shot - probably about 5 to 10 degrees. They bounce once and go less then half the initial distance after the bounce. Round nosed factory foster loads at 1,600fps advertised velocity as printed on the side of the ammo box go a little further on the initial shot and usually bounce twice instead of just once with each bounce covering a little less then half the previous distance. You can easily see the bounces by the dust cloud poufs created. Basically with those two types of slugs if you’re at least 500 yards down range your probably safe. As plainly evidenced by the article you linked too, this would not be the case if one were shooting modern high velocity sabot slugs instead.
Not very scientific, but that's what I have to add to the discussion as a starting point when considering the down range potential for collateral damage with the Lee slugs which I have not actually done this with but since they are basically a smaller diameter foster slug they should behave similarly to the factor foster slug loads.
Hodgdon has both 7/8 oz and 1 oz slug loads listed on their online load database:
http://data.hodgdon.com
I've been using HS-6 and get results suitable for deer hunting out of a 19" smoothbore Saiga.
Did you ever get around to trying Longshot? If so what load did well? Down to only Longshot left here & would welcom any info. Thanks .Quote:
Originally Posted by diehard
i been running 31gr of herco with my 7/8 ounce slugs with the old W-AA hulls but i was told that it was to hot some im searching around for another load , ill prob end up goin to a 1oz slugs as herco is the only thing locally available , sucks i prob have 3-400 7/8 slugs made up
Not sure who told you that was too hot, but there is no way that 31 gr of Herco is too hot for a 7/8 Lee slug. The recommended load for 1 oz slugs is 36 gr in a AA hull, and the pressure with a 7/8 oz slug must be lower. So, relax and enjoy shooting these!Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCzechBoss
i cant find my thread but someone was all over it on there .. ill continue on thenQuote:
Originally Posted by FullTang
That's a reasonably stout load, for sure---but safe. If you loaded Herco any lighter than that, you might even have problems with ignition of the powder (dirty burns, inconsistent velocities, or even bloopers.) That's why so many people go to the faster-burning powders when they want to load lower velocities; Richard Lee himself has been quoted saying that you can load these slugs (when cast from pure lead) in any "same-weight" trap load. So you could use any 7/8 oz trap load; you'll notice there aren't any 7/8 loads for Herco, because it's so inefficient and inconsistent, unless you get it up to big charges and high velocities.