I'm looking for a very clean burning powder for 9mm.
Any suggestions?
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I'm looking for a very clean burning powder for 9mm.
Any suggestions?
i have never found red dot to be excessively dirty in most hand gun calibers -
I prefer Silhouette for my 9MM loads.
I’ve tried Tightgroup and it was very clean burning. I have been steered away from it because it burns too fast. I’m trying Power Pistol now and my handgun seems to need more cleaning than it did with the other powder.
Red Dot is very clean in my guns. But so is unique once you're above a certain pressure level...
I tried a couple different powders and settled on TiteGroup. I've never had any issues with it, and I probably put 2-3000 rounds through a gun between cleanings.
Have heard good things about Nitro 100 NF.. especially about Clean..Talk about at the Brian Enos Site ..
I have Not tried it in 9mm...Yet!
Edit; I have noticed in working with other calibers, that it is Plenty Dirty at the published starting loads.. Cleans up really Nice once pushing it a little!!
My loads seem clean with 4.2gr bullseye and a 124gr bullet.
I concur Titegroup is a good alternative for clean burning selection of 9mm cartridges.
I have been loading TiteWad for years now and it is very clean. I also have 8lbs of Nitro100NF and will be switching to it when my last lb of TiteWad is done. I did load some Nitro100 loads just to check them out and they are clean.
I don't understand how anyone can say TiteGroup is clean. Everything I've loaded with it has been a sooty mess. My FIL was shooting at my house one day and I was wondering why his gun, brass, hands looked like they'd been in a coal mine and asked him.
"I'm shooting TiteGroup loads."
Ahh, yeah, sooty stuff.
This is from NATO Reloading when they reviewed TG:
Attachment 326010
N320
if you can find it try WSF Winchester Super Field
have used it in 40S&W and 9x19 you can also use it in 45acp and some shotgun loads
I got some 473AA From Shady Grady. Its $15 a pound and comparable to WSF. It probably off a bit so drop the load a grain and work back up - but its available and cheap.
EDIT: Its on the hot side, and really dense. I am using starting loads and have no incentive to increase from that
Speer #11 has reloading data for 473AA
I remember reading the info and looking at the pictures at http://www.natoreloading.com/9mm/. The results were part of why I stocked up on Lovex D-032 (a.k.a. Clean Shot)
I went back & looked stuff over to refocus on the cleanliness aspect.
For typical shooting loads, AA#2 and Clean Shot were considered the best. Near zero soot and not much in the way of particulate residue. The NATO reloading guy seemed to think 231/HP-38 and 244 were next best in this burn rate range.
I did not dig into the powders that people would select to maximize velocity.
I have been using HP38 but have 30 lbs of Clean Shot in reserve
Another WSF; 9mm and 45ACP
True Blue will burn very clean in 9mm, and it meters beautifully.
I'll add my vote for Nitro100NF....2.8g under a 125g powder coated lead bullet is a cream puff. Gentle but reliable and accurate. No soot on the case...no crud in the gun. I've put about 1K of that load through a 5906 this year alone and I haven't cleaned it yet. Not going to either...it ain't dirty.
I have about 10oz of TiteWad to go before starting on my Nitro100. I loaded a few test loads and they were not only clean but very low SD compared to my TiteWad. 2.1gr under a 147gr Lee TC
Attachment 326043
Wsf, n320
I was given many more pounds than I will live long enough to shoot of Win 231 and even more of Green Dot. To me free is the new clean.
CFE Pistol is my current favorite. Red dot and True Blue are also very clean. BNE
Another vote for WSF. Blue Dot is also outstanding in 9MM along with Red Dot/Promo.
D36-07 or ultimate pistol is incredibly clean.
The question seems to be, What are you shooting that is too dirty?
My preference for higher volume 9mm USPSA type shooting for being “clean”:
VihtaVouri N320
Nobel Sport Vectan Prima V
Expansion Industries ETR-7 (supposedly it is rebranded CSB1. I bought a lot when it was crazy cheap in 2015. Expansion Industries was pure crap, but ETR7 just plain works and I still have a lot)
Alliant Sport Pistol
lovex clean shot
Lovex Clean shot
I’ll be the fourth to vote for VihtaVouri N320, and will add that it meters very well.
Expensive, although just about all powders are at nosebleed prices these days.
If you are working with a propellant that you decide burns less cleanly than you like, there ARE things you can do to improve matters:
1.) Increase the charge weight. Unless you are all the way to the max recommended weight, increasing the charge weight in 0.1 gr. increments is usually safe, and often reduces velocity/accuracy spreads. Obviously, if the charge weight you use is already giving you flattened primers (compared to a good factory load), bumping the charge weight up is not a good idea.
2.) Slightly increase the crimp on reloads. Turning the crimp die down by 1/8th to 1/4th turn. This sometimes improves matters greatly, without altering pressures, accuracy, or feeding. Even when at a maximum charge weight, I have never seen signs of higher pressures from using this technique. Primers look the same, and slide velocity (measured by how far the brass gets thrown) has never been different.
2.) VERY slightly decrease the Cartridge Over All Length (C.O.A.L.), by turning the seater plug down a VERY small amount. The 9mmP round is notably sensitive, pressure-wise, to C.O.A.L. decreases which would be hardly noticeable in other larger-capacity rounds. Various Speer manuals mentioned an incident in which one of their test loads that developed ~29,000 p.s.i. at one C.O.A.L was shortened by 0.020" and far, FAR higher pressures (I do not remember their pressure number, but I recall that it was well over 45,000 p.s.i.). I would recommend shortening C.O.A.L. by 0.005" at a time. I do not know how this translates into fractions of a turn on seating plug screws, so use a good vernier caliper, if you attempt this. If you do not have one that measures differences this small, get one before you try this.
3.) Try a hotter primer. There is a variety of opinions as to which standard small pistol primers burn the hottest. If the charge weight you use is in the low-middle range, it is unlikely that pressures will increase unduly if you switch from one brand of standard small pistol primer to another. If you elect to try magnum small pistol primers, consider a slight charge reduction before using them.
DO NOT TRY ALL THESE MEASURES IN ONE STEP! I recommend trying them in the order that I recommend them, being ever watchful for flattened/ cratered primers, or for brass ejection distances that exceed those from factory ammo by 25% or more. Since you will be examining your brass for cleaner burning anyway, a look at primers or the distances the cases get thrown will be somewhat automatic, anyway.
The Gent who asserted that all pistol/shotgun propellants tend to burn more cleanly as they are pushed harder, is entirely correct. Even so, there appears to be some propellants that start out burning more cleanly than others, and only improve as they are pushed harder.
While I am not generally a fan of Winchester pistol/shotgun propellants, it is difficult to improve on the clean-burning properties of W231/HP38 and others. Just don't leave W231 in your powder measure hopper for any length of time, when finished using it.
I bought a keg (8 pounds) of Alliant PROMO (Alliant Red Dot w/o the dots) some time back, when I thought I would have time/money to become a serious competitor in IDPA/USPSA events. Life dictated otherwise, and I have since used it in every pistol caliber I own, except 7.62x25mm (for which I lack dies). I have loaded enough 9x19P and .45 ACP with it to fill several regulation-sized bathtubs. I have obtained results which were NEVER less than satisfactory and were usually in the "very good" to "excellent" range, with respect to economy, accuracy, consistency, and reliability. Red Dot/Promo will certainly deliver maximum performance from .45 ACP and does so with remarkable cleanliness. Reduced velocity loads (200 gr. @ 850 f/s, 230 gr. @ 750 f/s, 250 gr. @ 700 f/s) deliver excellent performance with respect to the constraints already mentioned and burned no less cleanly.
In 9mmP, Red Dot/Promo delivers excellent performance with even greater cleanliness of burn, but the propellent is a bit "short legged" in terms of the performance it delivers. Using cast or polymer-coated projectiles, it is possible to launch 120 - 125 gr. projectiles at velocities sufficient to qualify for minimum "minor caliber" performance (125 gr. @ 1000 f/s, or the equivalent) in IDPA/USPSA contests, if just barely.
ONE propellant that I did not see mentioned and which might be ideal for you is IMR-700X. I have used it extensively in .45 ACP, .38 Spl., and (less so) in 9mmP. This propellant is just a touch faster-burning than Red Dot/Promo, and this is evident when working up 9mmP loads. Using 115-125 gr. bullets of any type, you may find it difficult obtain minimum velocities for action pistol events, but expect very VERY clean burns, often exceeding that of Red Dot/Promo or W231/HP38. With the 147 gr. Hornady XTP, however, 2.9/IMR-700X delivered 838 f/s which is everything one needs for competition. I would expect similar or slightly higher velocities from identical charge weights.
The economy of using 700X in this combination is striking: If one assumes a charge weight of 2.8 gr., a pound of IMR-700X contains 2500 charges. Since we live in the times of "nosebleed prices", as another Gent pointed out, let's assume that a pound of IMR-700X costs $50. 2500 charges from that pound of powder amounts to $.02 per round. We'll certainly never see primers that cheap again. Not, at least before I am unable to hold and fire a pistol.
Sorry to write a novel, but I've been down this road more times than I can count.
Problem...700x cost is considerably higher than Nitro100NF, yet N100NF is entirely acceptable on clean. Yet costs less! And, N100NF is Very bulky, not like Trail Boss, but less is required than Trail Boss! I am using it in a great many Loads.. as a Plus, it will work well with lighter than standard Boolit weights...something I did Not get from Red Dot..Tho Red Dot/Promo is still, and prolly always will be, My Preference! Availability and Cost prohibit my use of it Currently!!
Another vote for TiteGroup. It’s accurate, meters great and burns clean even in mild loads. I’m loading 4.1 gr under a 115 RN so not anywhere near a hot load.
Just irritated they’ve jacked the price up so much.
Winchester Super Target is another clean burner
I was looking for Titegroup a while back and could find none. The above claim made me curious.
I went to the Hodgdon on-line tool and found no Titegroup loads for shotguns.
I pulled up my pdf of 2009 Hodgdon load data. I did find Titegroup listed for shotguns.
I went to the 12 ga, Win compression formed, 1 oz, Win 209, WAA12SL and found 4 loads for different velocities.
I then went back to the on-line tool and found these exact same 4 loads listed for high gun. This is with same exact charges, velocities and pressures for each.
I then went to the 1-1/8 oz loads with the similar component selection (all Win) and found the same duplication of data.
I then found a post where Hodgdon apparantly admitted they are the same.
https://www.shotgunworld.com/threads...powder.570009/
I am sure it was "just marketing" but I dislike the confusion caused by stuff like this.
CFE Pistol works great in my 9mm and 45acp. Burns clean and meters very accurately.