M1917 Adjustable Rear Sight

I like to shoot my Remington M1917 with either cast or jacketed bullets. Problem is that I have to shift the front sight .030" left to correct windage when shooting cast. I know that Parker Hale made a target sight for the P14/M1917. The 5B model. But those can be pricey when you find them for sale. They also have a lot more vertical and horizontal adjustment than I need.
So I'm designing my own adjustable rear sight that can be installed without altering the M1917. It's almost done. Here's a couple pics. The sight has about .040" windage adjustment L or R and is adjusted by turning a screw. Lowest elevation matches the lowest ladder setting. Highest elevation matches the 800 yd ladder setting. My plan is to make the elevation adjustable by turning a screw. Right now elevation is held by the aperture clamping the sight base.
The base is made from standard aluminum U-channel. The aperture threads into another piece of standard aluminum.

"If Necessity is the Mother of Invention, being broke surely must be the Father!"

I like it! I like it a LOT! Keep us posted, sir!

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Originally Posted by gunboat57

I like to shoot my Remington M1917 with either cast or jacketed bullets. Problem is that I have to shift the front sight .030" left to correct windage when shooting cast. I know that Parker Hale made a target sight for the P14/M1917. The 5B model. But those can be pricey when you find them for sale. They also have a lot more vertical and horizontal adjustment than I need.
So I'm designing my own adjustable rear sight that can be installed without altering the M1917. It's almost done. Here's a couple pics. The sight has about .040" windage adjustment L or R and is adjusted by turning a screw. Lowest elevation matches the lowest ladder setting. Highest elevation matches the 800 yd ladder setting. My plan is to make the elevation adjustable by turning a screw. Right now elevation is held by the aperture clamping the sight base.
The base is made from standard aluminum U-channel. The aperture threads into another piece of standard aluminum.

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PLEASE keep us posted!!!!

Still waiting for some material to arrive before I can finish, but here are some images of what it will look like. I'm using the existing M1917 sight screw and nut to attach the assembly to the rifle. The windage adjustment screw is a close fit between the existing rear sight wings. Turning it moves the sight L or R. The elevation screws bear against the sight screw. Turning those screws in raises the slider.

Nice!! I found a PH 5B after a semi long search. Not cheap, but a lot less costly than anyone in the U.S. was asking for one. And that is despite being purchased in and shipped from South Africa.

I do like your design. Keep us posted please.

gunboat57,

Excellent Post! YES, the M1917 needed a windage adjustable rear sight. In 1916, the British brain cells dropped the Windage Adjustable rear sight from the MkIII Rifle, creating the MkIII*. They also dropped the useless magazine cutoff, which made sense. I have many .303 arms, and some are old MkIIIs with the windage adjustable rear sight which mean as different lots of ammo are issued, one goes a Click right or left for Zero. After 1916, a hammer job to the front sight will render any correction needed until the next batch of ammo arrives! Who would have thought this was "Better?"

The M1903 Springfield had a windage adjustment on the rear sight. Why did the folks adopting the Model 1917 NOT insist on the same rear sight adjustment? Hammer mechanics are not precise and what is the need when a windage adjustble rear sight was ALREADY standard issue? More "military intelligence" I endured during my service days!

Be well.

Adam

Expediency. The U.S was so short of arms they needed anything available RDN, so accepted the M1917 Secondary Standard Rifle
with as few changes from the P14 as possible.
I agree that the M1917 could have used a windage-adjustable feature.

Years ago I bought an Ishy No1 MkIII* which had terrible wood but a pristine bore. It cost me all of $59.
I replaced all the wood and bought a No1 MkIII windage adjustable rear sight leaf for it. Since then it's been my favorite Milsurp.
It's ugly as a fence post but I can still shoot 1 MOA with that thing with my boolits from a custom mold. They are 195gr and measure .304/.314 after sizing.

As they say: "Purtie don't shoot!" :)

Do your fingers fit inside the sight to adjust the windage screw, or does the sight have to be removed to adjust, the reinstalled?

Some Winchester P14s have a windage adjustable and finer graduated rear sight ......this was a sniper sight .

Gewehr-Guy, I don't think I'll need to unmount the sight to make windage adjustment. I can adjust the windage by using long nose pliers to grip the center of the windage adjustment screw and twisting it. There's room to do that. I plan to file some flats at the middle of that screw to make it easier to grip.
Typically, when I adjust my sights, I calculate exactly how many thousandths the sight needs to move based on comparing POI with POA on a target. Then I use my calipers to measure between the rear sight and some reference feature as I adjust. On my new sight, windage adjustment can be measured between my sight base and one of the protecting sight ears. Elevation adjustment is measured between my slider and the top of my base.

It's rainy here in NW Pennsylvania, so I can't mow the lawn. And the aluminum bar stock I ordered hasn't arrived yet. So I designed another rear sight using the aluminum I had at hand. See the pics below.
This version uses two 3-48 screws to replace the existing sight screw. Windage is adjusted by just tightening one 3-48 screw deeper than the other. Elevation is controlled by a set screw going up from underneath. That set screw is easily accessible if you pull the bolt out of the rifle.
Fewer parts is a nice feature. But yowza! Those 3-48 threads are fun to tap! I think the original sight screw and nut were 3-48 or possible even 3-56? That must have been a production headache!
Anyway, I'll have both sights complete about the same time next week. Can't wait to try them out.

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Originally Posted by Gewehr-Guy

Do your fingers fit inside the sight to adjust the windage screw, or does the sight have to be removed to adjust, the reinstalled?

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Gewehr,

My several Pre-1916 MkIIIs with windage adjustable rear sights are easy to click adjust. Why would anyone need to remove the sight to adjust windage?

Be well.

Adam

I think Gewehr was asking about my homemade rear sight. I think...

I finished my rear sight, first version, and went to the range today. Could only shoot at 50 yds but it was much easier for my 66 year old eyes to hold a good sight picture. I calculate that I need to lower my slider .070" to be dead on with my cast loads. Just need to loosen the aperture a bit, turn a set screw a few turns, then re-tighten the aperture.
The sight is solid and can be adjusted with precision using calipers. No alterations of the rifle were needed. And, of course, the original military sight can be re-installed.

Neat sight!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Forgot to post a target pic. I've been testing various loads of IMR 4198. Is it better to use more powder or use foam backer rod with less powder? My new rear sight helped me find the answer. Distance is 50 yards, off a bench rest.

Nice groups! And a great idea for a receiver sight.
Unfortunately, I lack any skill with machine tools, but also got tired of non adj. windage on my 1917 several years ago. I couldn't afford a PH 5B, and didn't want to alter the rifle with a Lyman or old Pacific rear sight. My solution was to install a B-Square scope mount and inexpensive 3-9x scope. Well, ok, now I can't load the rifle with stripper clips, but otherwise the mount works great, very stable, yes, cheating a bit, but since the there's no alteration to the rifle, I can remove it and reinstall the original sight if for some reason I want to do that.
B Square is no longer in business, but there are other companies that manufacture no-tap-no-drill scope mounts these days.

You should consider selling those rear sights, I'll bet many shooters would be interested in them.

Fgd135, it looks like "Bad Ace Tactical" sells a no tap no drill mount for the M1917. I don't really want to put a scope on mine but I wonder if their mount could be the base for a practical aperture sight. Don't need much adjustment for windage or elevation when I hunt groundhogs with my cast loads. 75 yds max. Just need a small aperture.
I'll talk to them and see if they are open to suggestions.

By the way, all I have is a drill press, bench vice, and assorted files and hack saws. Having an accumulation of uncommon taps helps a lot!

Below is a picture of my last homemade sight for my M1917, at least for a while. It is the ultimate in simplicity. An aluminum plate is fastened down using the existing threaded hole for the rear sight spring and a 6-40 machine screw. I bought an aperture base for a Williams 5D receiver sight off Ebay. So, I can adjust for windage using the Williams aperture base. I can raise the sight either by putting shims under the Williams aperture base or by raising the aluminum plate using the three set screws.
Initial trip to the range indicates I need to move the aperture .040" right. A .032" shim will put me right on for my favorite cast boolit loads.
If anyone wants to make their own sight based on my ideas, let me know and I'll post part drawings.

The M1917 front sight is adjustable, but staked heavily. I have a device that the Belgians made up after WWII for M1917 rifles, to allow the front sight to be pressed left & right.

A front sight adjustment tool would make the job easier. But I just clamp the muzzle in a vise with leather padding. Then I drive the sight L or R with an aluminum rod and a big mallet. I measure after every few whacks to see if it's gone far enough.
One reason I really like the rear sights to have windage adjustment is I can't stand to see the front sight off-center, especially if there are protective ears for reference. But I can stand the rear sight being a few thou L or R. Just my brand of OCD I suppose!