Wondering what y'all are shooting from your .44 Magnums at the handgun silhouette matches. I might try giving this a whang with the CVA Scout 2 pistol.
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Wondering what y'all are shooting from your .44 Magnums at the handgun silhouette matches. I might try giving this a whang with the CVA Scout 2 pistol.
You probably know it, but just in case, “the silhouette bullet” was the Saeco #428 or the GC version of it loaded with somewhere between 22.5 and 24 grains of H110 / 296.
^What he said. I shot a Ruger, with the RCBS 429-240 SIL Silhouette boolit over 24.0 grains H-110. I had fun.
Thanks fellas. I didn't know it. The only silhouette I shot -- 20 or more years ago -- was with scoped Contenders in 6.5 and 7mm TCU. Never ran a .44 for this, and when I hunted with a SBH I loaded the Hornady 300-grain XTP. I notice both molds cited have a semi-truncated cone nose profile -- I assume for improved BC?
In my early days of IHMSA I was using a Ruger Super Blackhawk with cast bullets. I used 2400 powder with excellent results. That combination was very common then. This was the early 80s. For jacketed bullets you would be hard pressed to do better than the previously suggested 296/H110. When I switched to. DW 44 I could never find a cast bullet load that I liked. It did like 296 with Sierra 240 HP.
What I have heard in reference to the truncated cone design is that it has better long range stability than a SWC design. If you are considering a bullet heavier than 240 grains, check Accurate molds 43-265D. I designed that bullet with silhouette in mind.
+1!
There goes the 250gr Keith boolit with 22.5 H110 again!
I learned about that load here and my SRH and I thank you all.
For me, the 40 targets of an IHMSA round combines being able to hold good for the early targets (chickens & pigs) and then stay good for the much harder turkeys & rams. Part of why they are harder is just eye strain and maintaining focus for 40 consecutive targets.
Recoil is not your friend.
44 mag is used mostly for the revolver class. Using it for one of the unlimited classes that allow 14" guns would not be a typical choice for someone trying to be "competitive", but should work fine just for getting started or shooting for the "fun of it". Most IHMSA shooting is done with open sights. The class that allows 14" guns with scopes use targets that are a lot smaller.
Using a scope and shooting the small targets calls for accuracy as a top priority with no concern about power.
If shooting full size targets out to 200 meters, you should have good knock down power with a 14" single shot gun, even with a load that would be iffy from a 10" revolver. Flatter shooting and less wind drift are helpful and should be considered when choosing a bullet and load. However, what ever load you can find that is most accurate at 150 meters will usually trump everything else.
PF: I would be shooting just for the fun of it.
I wish more folks would become active at IHMSA "just for the fun of it". The one guy at the local club that does all of the work does not have much incentive when a handful or less show up. What used to be monthly well attended matches for ~8 months every year has dwindled to one or two per year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abert Rim
No matter if I was shooting IHMSA,, or whatever,, I work up a load for my gun that is the most accurate in it. What works for Bubba Joe, or Sam Funny, or whomever else,, may not work in MY gun.
They make reloading manuals that give excellent guidelines on how to assemble safe ammo for your guns. Since each gun is a different machine than any other,, I prefer to let my gun tell me what it prefers & is most accurate for the intended purpose.
That's the reality here in Louisiana. I sponsor matches at three different ranges in my state. It has gotten to the point that I often have only one other shooter besides myself. I had to drop my IHMSA sanction for my matches. I still shoot silhouette but just for my own benefit.Quote:
Originally Posted by P Flados
I shot IHMSA in the early to mid 80's with a 10.5" Ruger Super Blackhawk. The "Standing" class was my favorite. The Lyman 429421 cast boolit over 10.0 gr. of Unique worked well for me & was popular among the other .44 mag. shooters.
My dad shot IMHSA back in the early 90s. I thought about getting into it, but the requirements to get into the club doing it seemed like too much hassle, and not much participation.
His 44 load used a 240gr xtp and AA9 though not sure of charge weight. I have his 10" sbh Silhouette Special.
I didn't know anybody was still shooting IHMSA. I was really into it through the 80's and 90's but everybody in Albuquerque seemed to give it up. I shot NRA silhouette for a while after that and the same deal there, nobody wanted to play any more. As for 44 mag, I found that if you have enough sight adjustment you don't need much power. At least on our rams, if you hit one with 240 grains it went down just maybe not very fast so I ended up using what would be considered a slightly warm 44 spl load.
Nobade, I was thinking you used to be in New Mexico. I moved to Texas a couple of years ago from Alamogordo.
I plan to pursue this far enough to shoot the next match here on the first Saturday in May. This will be a heavy break-open CVA Scout 2 with 14-inch bull barrel and I will mount a Weaver 2-6X pistol scope. I won't need to be anywhere near maximum loads, so my focus will be on finding a good cast bullet that is accurate to 200 meters, something between 250 and 270 grains, preferably. I'd try the Lee 310, but it seems I have read the WFN designs lose stability beyond 100 faster than LFNs, Keiths and the conicals. High Standard's Accurate 43-265D looks good, but am not sure how far behind Tom is. I do have enough 260-grain Keiths from a previous mold to do load workups and have enough for a match, so may go that route for now.
We still hold ihmsa matches, and attendance is dwindling, or it was. Some new guys shooting pistol-caliber rifles at the field pistol targets joined us last year, and our first match this year was bigger than any in a decade. We drew a bunch of new shooters using .22 rifles and air guns.
As to the .44, I think you'll find that standard weight bullets work fine for chickens and pigs and maybe turkeys, but you'll almost certainly need something heavier to group well on the rams. That's certainly true of revolvers. 4227 is always worth trying, too.
How I would Roll...but, I would Not disregard that Lee 310... But I use it in the Lever action...Quote:
Originally Posted by Abert Rim
I'm from Pa. and I shot IHMSA for 22 years. Started back in the mid 80's.
I was the Pa. state director in the early 90's. I don't think there's any
matches in Pa. anymore. Maybe a .22 only match over east somewhere.
I'm going to be 82 in July and still have all my IHMSA guns. I do miss it.
Leadhead, I still don't understand what happened to handgun silhouette. It is easier for me to form a theory of why cowboy action shooting has fizzled.
At our club anyway, since pistol caliber levergun uses the same course of fire but is way easier to make hits, everybody went to that because making hits is fun. I did both for a long time but finally got tired of shooting by myself with the pistol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abert Rim
It's like any shooting game. It's hot for a few years and then people start to get bored.
As far as IHMSA is concerned, It got really hard to get people (kids) to work setting
targets and whatever. Our range used to pay the target setters $20 a day to set.
That was pretty good pay for a kid back in the 80's and early 90's. Now all they want
to do is play on there damn phones. Speaking of phones, have you ever seen anyone
actually talking on one?
I think IHMSA has fizzled because it's NOT an easy game. Many people want to look like they are good shooters, and yet,, when challenged to a serious game where accuracy & power are required,, they just do not want to work to be "better." Just look at a few of the "action" games & all the special equipment they use. They can "look good" by using equipment that compensates for poorer ability.
When I tell people in USPSA that I shoot a handgun at 100-200 yards,, they think I've lost my mind.
Good points, fellas. In this neck of the woods, the shotgun sports -- skeet, trap, clays -- seem to be holding their own. There are quite a few participants in NRL and other rimfire, same for various long-range steel shoots and a few still shooting airgun field target and benchrest. Practical pistol shooters were holding on at my old range in La Luz, NM, but the silhouettes were just rusting inside the gated bone yard along with most of the CAS props. If just one of the handful of aging cowboy shooters was sick, they didn't have a "quorum" for a greatly abbreviated match.
As far as lack of interest in IHMSA. In Louisiana I'm on a local forum that is based on the shooting sports. Huge activity on that forum. I asked the question there why isn't handgun silhouette more popular. I got a lot of replies. Universally the answer was it's too boring. Society has changed since IHMSA was formed. The popular shooting sports now cater to high volume semi auto shooting. Action, scenario based shooting games are what today's shooters are attracted to.
That is a pretty good assumption. Yes, I've seen it with the AR's and the fast shooting handguns.
It seems like the guy that can shoot the fastest is the winner even if he misses all the targets.
I shot IHMSA for about 10 years , early 2000's . I'm shooting NRA Hunters Pistol and levergun now in Va . where I shoot , it's about 5 of us shoot pistols . I myself enjoy silhouette shooting , and it keeps you sharp when hunting season rolls around too . One thing that has definitely put the hurt on all shooting sports is the cost and availability of components . I haven't heard anything from the IHMSA folks in Va. for well over a year and can't find anything where they are still shooting . I guy who got me interested in IHMSA told me back in the 80's , that you had to sign up a month in advance to get a spot to shoot .
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When I competed with the 44 magnum I used IMR 4227 (22.5 grs.) behind the RCBS 240 boolit and the same weight of WW296 for J-word Sierras.
I used an SBH in the standing class decades back, the load was the Keith bullet, initially purchased and later home cast. Federal brass, CCI LP, 10.0 grains of Unique. Not a hand howler by any stretch but every ram hit went down, every time.
As far as certain games fizzling it seems some newer ones draw shooters from other disciplines, at least for a while. Then maybe later there's a segment of that group that retires, moves on, etc and no new blood gets involved.
The cowboy shooting always looked like fun and I'm sure there are groups that let you run what you brung but if the competition gets too serious it may drive some folks out. Not everyone can purchase the latest, hottest and greatest and sink more$$ to tune and trick things out. Plus reloading has been tough for many the past few with components.
IHMSA was awesome because besides a trigger job and A/M grips you couldn't alter the firearm and further unless in the unlimited class. I think this was a huge draw for most as you probably owned something that could do the job. Like a 6" barrel 357 magnum.
I think we as shooters need to bring folks to the range that want to shoot, not just "would like to" The would like toos never seem to find the time and nothing gets accomplished. Have them shoot on paper and reactive targets to get some sense of satisfaction. Keep the targets close enough for some hits to be made and get a sense of well being from their efforts. Putting the target at 100 yds and getting no hits while you do so easily doesn't foment a desire to go out and try again. JMHO
Another problem is availability of appropriate handguns. New TCs, XPs, RPMs, MOAs, and Dan Wessons ain't there no more, and used ones are not cheap. You can buy a Freedom if you've got the $$$, but it's still a single action revolver.
I shot back in the early 80's with a Ruger SBH,429421 and a heathy dose of 296. Shot locally on a 100yd course using my K38 with a dot sight until a couple years ago. I just couldn't seem to keep that dot from dancing around so much towards the end, so I quit.
I shot IHMSA in the 1980s. In fact, it got me back into competitive shooting, having shot smallbore when I was a young kid. I was fascinated by a long range precision game that utilized the power of big bore handguns.
Pretty early on, I switched from my S&W 29 to a T/C Contender, shooting 30-30, 357 Herrett knuckle buster loads.
Then, my brother brought his S&W 25-5 and was knocking down rams in Standing Class, using 8.5 gr Unique or 6 gr Bullseye under a 250 cast SWC. It was amazing, to me, to hear the shot then wait an extended moment for the bullet to connect. A hit ram never failed to go down! And, without all the recoil!
So, I rediscovered my m29 and found it did just as well, using the 429421 or the RCBS silhouette bullet over 8.8 gr. Unique.
Very pleasant and effective.
Yeah, too bad IHMSA has evaporated.
PS: Here’s another “IHMSA era” observation: Back then, we mostly all preferred the long 8 & 3/8” barrels! 8-)
Are you referring to Bayoushooter forum ? I used to be pretty active there but haven't been in years. What's your handle there, I may have to check it out again. I'm ShootingSupplies (I think).Quote:
Originally Posted by high standard 40
I shot IHMSA all through the early '80s and into the '90s. During that time, there were SIX clubs/ranges within a two-hour drive that were running monthly matches; today, only one of those still shoots IHMSA. IIRC, there was quite a scandal after the passing of Elgin Gates (Founder and long-time President of IHMSA)...financial shennigans, a lot of nepotism, and allegations of 'pay for play' from some of the IHMSA's commercial sponsors ("cough up or your product won't be 'approved' under our rules"). After the post-Elgin Gates collapse, IHMSA was regenerated...at one time, there were actually TWO groups claiming to be IHMSA...but never regained its previous level of participation.
I didn't shoot a .44 Mag for Revolver Class; preferring a 10-inch DW .41 Mag. And, even back then, I was shooting CBs...a truncated-cone from NEI, dropping at 225 gr. from Lyman #2, loaded over a lightly compressed charge of IMR4227, clocked something around 1300 fps.
Bill
Yep, that's the forum. It's been a long time since I asked that question there. I also published an article in the Louisiana Shooting Association news letter about IHMSA with photos. I got two new people to attend our matches with that article but they attended for only a short time then never returned. My name on that forum is the same as here. For a period of time I also made posts announcing our match dates, all to no avail.Quote:
Originally Posted by 6.5X284ever
That's not exactly true, but they do say that if all your hits are in the A zone, you're shooting too slow. I got good at it, then got bored. Now I'd like to shoot IHMSA but I'd have to drive a loooong way to do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by leadhead
6 string, you hit the nail on the head regarding heavy revolver bullets. They don't need the speed and actually are more wind resistant near and below the speed of sound than a few 100 FPS above it. You use more elevation but that's about it.
I went as a spectator before trying it and spotted for a guy using a Colt new frontier 44 special, 7.5" barrel. He used the Lyman 'factory level' load for his purpose, about 700FPS. He didn't hit a lot of animals but even out to the ram line at 200M when it was hit it went down.