Casting for lever action

I’ve recently bought a tube fed lever gun for which I want to start casting. It’s 357/38spl. I’ve cast for other calibers so I’m good with the process, but not sure about the lead. Most commercial stuff is advertised as hard cast, but not really specific on what qualifies as hard cast. I use straight ww lead for 9mm, 45acp and 300bo. I don’t know if I need to harden it up and try making an alloy or if it’s going to be fine and I’m worried about nothing. I sure don’t want problems with mashing lead in the tube. Anyway, if you have any advice or insight, I’d appreciate you sharing your experiences and wisdom. TIA

A bit of Linotype and tin would help. If you are not driving them fast, 38 special range, then you'll be fine with a flat/plane based boolit. Once you go over 1000 fps you'll need to harden up to 12 to 15 BHN. Over that, gas checked boolit. Yes, powder coating will help, but it won't solve everything. Have you read Fryxel's ingot to target? http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm Good place to start.

I use straight clip-on WW's in 32-20 with the Lyman 311008 bullet, which is a plain base style, up to 1,300 ft/sec with no leading problems at all. For many years all most caster had access to was clip-on WW's and we made do with them just fine.

Straight wheel weights work great for paper targets but if the bullets will ever be used for hunting I would recommend adding 2% tin or pewter to get the tin / antimony ratio closer to equal. This will give you a tougher less brittle bullet.

I actually cut my WW with pure lead for hunting bullets at 50-50 but straight WW will work. I do add tin for good fill out but what do I know, I only cast for 15-20 leverguns.

I’ve standardize my alloy to 16:1 for everything not exceeding 1500 FPS, it makes beautiful bullets and no leading following the casting rules.

I use the 20-1 lead from Roto-Metals. BHN of about 10. Never a problem with leading, and if you're shooting steel targets, you can retrieve the spent lead and re-use it.

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Originally Posted by Delkal

Straight wheel weights work great for paper targets but if the bullets will ever be used for hunting I would recommend adding 2% tin or pewter to get the tin / antimony ratio closer to equal. This will give you a tougher less brittle bullet.

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What Delkal said!

I should add that for higher velocity loads in larger cartridges such as 30-30, 32 Winchester Special and 35 Remington I mix equal parts pure lead with Clip-on-WW's and then add 1 or 2 % Tin. They give great results on deer with good expansion and high weight retention. I load these all above 2,000 ft/sec but of course use gas checks.

I use 50% coww, 50%soww, 2% pewter for my 45 colt hunting load. Not much expansion but I don't push them hard. Been thinking of using 40% cows, 60% soww, 2 % pewter

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Originally Posted by CastingFool

I use 50% coww, 50%soww, 2% pewter for my 45 colt hunting load. Not much expansion but I don't push them hard. Been thinking of using 40% cows, 60% soww, 2 % pewter

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What would be the objective? I have a few hundred lbs of soww’s for which I haven’t found any use.

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Originally Posted by Randy Bohannon

I’ve standardize my alloy to 16:1 for everything not exceeding 1500 FPS, it makes beautiful bullets and no leading following the casting rules.

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16 what to 1 what?

All the references of X amount to 1 alloys are translated as: X is the portion of Lead and the 1 is Tin. So 16:1 means 16 parts Lead to 1 part Tin.

I like to mix the pure lead with clip on WW's for rifle hunting bullets so they will expand better and not break apart. Also the small amount of Tin as I mentioned above. This combination has worked well on 9 deer so far.

I run along the same line of thought as fordwannabe, in that I use straight wheel weights for everything from paper to deer. However I do sometimes cut them 50/50 with soft lead for me and my sons deer hunting in 45 Colt. They both work great and expand, which tells us that cast bullets are great choices almost no matter how you mix them.

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Originally Posted by Iron369

What would be the objective? I have a few hundred lbs of soww’s for which I haven’t found any use.

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As mentioned, a 16-1 (lead to tin) alloy would be a very good use for the SOWWs and will give you excellent bullets for the 357/38 SPL cartridge whether for rifle or revolver.

The 357 Mag rifle should really be loaded as a rifle, first off. The 180 and 200 grain RCBS bullets work well. The 200 RCBS plain base when powder coated and sized to groove diameter can be loaded in brass/brass cases to a revolver cylinder over all length, as to function through a lever gun's action, using the tube magazine. Taper crimp and hard compressed with H-110/296 and small rifle primers. My working rifle load is 15 grains, a max load for the case itself. Works fine in my Marlin 94c, not so sure about a Win or an import. Good idea to work up, always, from 12 grains which is also accurate.
I cast very, very hard, I do not give a flip about expansion, accuracy is my 100% consideration. My alloy for 100% fill out and weight consistency is 70% cleaned clip on WW, 20% linotype, 10% chilled magnum shot, all by weight, alloy made up at high temprature 1,200+ in a 100# plumber's pot. High temp is for the antimony and arsenic to combine into the alloy. When cast the bullets are water dropped from the mold, dried then powder coated and sized to groove diameter using case lube on a pad. Crimp is a taper crimp as a separate stage after seating.

I shoot silhouettes including Cowboy Silhouette, only thing that ever counts in silhouette competition is the target off the rail at up to 200 meters. 70 pound T-1 ram at 200 requires a bit of terminal momentum. A shoot off with chickens at 200 requires accuracy. In 1986. I created the Cowboy Silhouette game, the rules, etc., for lever guns to be used during handgun silhouette matches. At the time I was the match director at the Hurlburt club/range and the IHMSA State Director for FL.

As you say, it's going to be fine and you're worried about nothing.

An absolutely inconceivable number of pistol-caliber lever actions were run on 9-10 BHN lead/tin alloys back in the day. The main reason to run your harder 11-14 BHN wheel weight would be for ramping up the speeds into the full-tilt .357 spectrum. For cowboy action pop loads, it would even be advisable to soften it some.

I use clip on wheel weights and tin to cast and load for a Marlin .357/.38 lever gun with micro grooves. It is a really fun firearm. For plinking .38’s in the carbine, I use wheel weights and gas check them. My 38’s with W-231 chronograph around 1220 fps out of the 18.5” carbine and shoot pretty tight groups up close. I also load full house .357’s with H-110 I hunt deer and pigs with . For full house .357’s I either mix 9 pounds of wheel weight and one pound of 50/50 solder or 9 1/2 pounds of wheel weights and an 8 ounce pewter coin. Gas checked, sized to .359 for the micro grooves, and pushed full tilt, these shoot tight with excellent terminal performance. In a rifle .357 magnum really comes alive. My 125 grain gas checked load with conventional lube chronograph an average of 2254 fps 12’ from the muzzle. Expand reliably on deer with close to 100% weight retention. These shoot tight in my marlin and do not lead in the micro groove barrel. I also load gas checked 158’s cast from the same alloy around 1720fps. I have pushed them faster without leading but in my carbine, it is the most accurate load i’ve found.
Tight groups
Willie

OP did not mention what mfg. of rifle so word of caution if you have a Rossi it may not like heavy or even standard weight boolits. Your twist rate will tell you more.

In the words of the USMC DI Love life . Try stuff if it doesn't work you've still learned from it that it doesn't work in that particular example.

38/357 ss92 Rossi ran 38s like water through a hose from WC to 358-158 RF Lee . Even after the lap and polish everything in a 357 case was fidgety to just plain wouldn't feed .
1894C Marlin JM as long as it was a nose out 38 WC and short enough to ride the elevator it would feed like water .

To keep it basic… Any alloy that shoots well in 300 BLK will shoot well in .30/30 at equivalent velocities.

for max velocity in 357 mag both rifle and pistol ive had good results with clip on wheel weights with a little bit of tin added in Lyman mold 358156, gas check and lube sized to .360 with carnauba red lube. I have an older ideal stamped mold that cast right about at .360 with the alloy ive used so it works out great.