410 Reloads?

I got a chance to visit a gun show this weekend. I haven’t attended one in several years but I thought it would be nice to attend one so I went.
I saw something that began a list of incomplete questions such as:
What?
How?
Really?
Is it effective?
And Can I duplicate it?

I don’t think I can duplicate it by myself so I thought I would ask this intelligent group. It appears to be a 410 defensive round that is roll crimped. It seems to have a pepper load. Can y’all elaborate on this round please?

Attachment 324387

Snake oil. Best .410 defense load is 5-pellet 00 buck.

I don't know if this is universal - but a "pepper blast" 'round these parts is #12 shot. But HOLY HECK IS THAT EXPENSIVE!!

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Some of the new TSS shot turkey loads are $ 12.?? dealer prices, per shot, plus profit plus taxes....HMmmnnnnn

2 1/2" .410's load rather easy. I have a Mec press that spits em out quite well. Tried to load 3" Very difficult and frustrating. Maybe a Mec 600 JR single stage would work. But that is a slow process.

3" shells are doable on a MEC junior once you adjust the base and all the dies again. Instead of the hassle to switch back and forth between 2 1/2" an 3" shells a started roll crimping most of my 3" loads. MEC's biggest design flaw on the .410 is no hull support on the crimp stations.

you can buy #9 1/2oz clay target loads......if the pepper loads are for room range self defence...the clay loads will be just as good if not better...I GUESS this is a less leathal option for the taurus judge??? first two cylinders this then buckshot perhaps???
410 is dead simple to reload using very few hand tools,plenty of how to videos out there...slower than a machine/press but for small volumne or specialty loads its well worth while doing...even easier if have metal cases.

Found this after a rather short search:

https://www.firequest.com/G12-419.html

My concern is that, if discharged at close range, would not the operator behind the weapon be inside the pepper cloud? Just asking.

Well first off let me say I’m no lawyer so don’t take what I’m saying as the gospel consulting attorney. Now let me address one thing first, The use of deadly force dictates that you or someone else is an immediate threat of severe bodily harm or death.
Item number two on the hit parade. Pointing a firearm it’s somebody constitutes at the very minimum brandishing and more than likely assault with a deadly weapon. If you are not an immediate threat of severe bodily injury or death.
Now that that’s all out-of-the-way let me just say that if I was in potential threat of severe bodily harm or death I’m not pointing pepper spray in anybody! If I’m to the point of actually leveling my firearm at someone it’s pretty much past the point of no return. If I’m in that much fear I’m not taking a chance on whether or not the pepper spray coming out of my 410 shotgun is actually going to work or not. Or if it’s just really gonna make the attacker pissed off!

Now that that’s all cleared up sure I could probably duplicate that I load 410 shells I load 12 gauge shells. Am I going to attempt it or give advice on attempting it absolutely not.
So thank you very much and have a nice day and y’all be safe.

Oh and I forgot one other thing read outpost75’s post!!!!! Cause he put it a heck of a lot simpler than I did

If you need to use a firearm to protect you or your loved ones then use the appropriate factory load to have the best chance for a one shot kill with no collateral damage. When you have to go to court to justify your actions you don’t want to give the other side any “ammo”(pun intended) to use against you. That includes defending your home brew ammo.

I totally agree with the statements above.
I was hoping the discussion would go more toward what the load would be good for and how to duplicate it.

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Originally Posted by Half Dog

I totally agree with the statements above.
I was hoping the discussion would go more toward what the load would be good for and how to duplicate it.

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The load is good for nothing, except maybe getting the user incarcerated or dead. Not to mention tied up in a civil case where you’ll undoubtedly lose and wind up with everything you own being taken away from you! Those less than lethal shotgun loads do nothing but line the pockets of the manufacturers.

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Originally Posted by Half Dog

I totally agree with the statements above.
I was hoping the discussion would go more toward what the load would be good for and how to duplicate it.

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Powder, overpowder card, cushion wad(maybe), pepper compacted, over pepper card, crimp or glue. I guess you could dump shot from a new shell then fill but you'll have the wad exiting and I've had them go 20ft on carpenter bee loads.

Could it, maybe, be used for stray cats?

It's for your last stand against a grizzly - when your long-range pepper spray fails, you can hit him in the face with your .410 pepper shells. The game wardens will be able to identify the bear because his scat will smell like Carolina Reaper...

I always enjoy a comical response.
Could the pepper be mixed with some type of jell to make it sticky and avoid the pepper drifting in the wind?

Maybe shooting flies or carpenter bees off the deck.

Half Dog,

Sir, you asked a logical question and got very logical responses. What is your need? If it is home defense, I respectfully say, "Get a better gun." Why send a Boy (410) to deal with what may be multiple assailants? Why have "limited objectives" when your life and the lives of your loved ones are depending on you?

I have owned several 410 shotguns over the years and only have a neat "Snake Charmer" used only for rattlers. I prefer a 20, 16 or 12 gauge, Loaded Right, for any anticipated need. A 410 shotgun makes a good boat anchor, in my opinion.

Be well.

Adam

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Originally Posted by Half Dog

I always enjoy a comical response.
Could the pepper be mixed with some type of jell to make it sticky and avoid the pepper drifting in the wind?

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Probably but I'd say less chance of inhalation and getting in eyes but that's clearly just a thought.

#9 shot is good for less than lethal varmint control. Such as stray dogs and cats.

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Originally Posted by Adam Helmer

Half Dog,

Sir, you asked a logical question and got very logical responses. What is your need? If it is home defense, I respectfully say, "Get a better gun." Why send a Boy (410) to deal with what may be multiple assailants? Why have "limited objectives" when your life and the lives of your loved ones are depending on you?

I have owned several 410 shotguns over the years and only have a neat "Snake Charmer" used only for rattlers. I prefer a 20, 16 or 12 gauge, Loaded Right, for any anticipated need. A 410 shotgun makes a good boat anchor, in my opinion.

Be well.

Adam

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Thank you for your response. My 410 is intended for skeet shooting and not self defense, I have a different plan for home defense. I saw a round that I was curious about and wanted to ask the group about reconstructing it, if feasible. And which situation it would best suited for. I can’t imagine a need for it but who knows. I learn something each day.

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Originally Posted by Outpost75

Snake oil. Best .410 defense load is 5-pellet 00 buck.

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BEST .410 Defensive Load is a 12 ga. Shotgun with Buckshot or Slugs. Don't be afraid of the Recoil, You'll only need to fire once or twice!

Randy

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Originally Posted by Half Dog

Could it, maybe, be used for stray cats?

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cream of wheat works on stray cats and bad dogs.:groner:

Well for those with a MEC press for loading 410 loads. There are two positions on the second crimp die for the cam over bolt to sit. The top hole is for 2-1/2" long hulls. The bottom hole is for the 3" hulls. I load mine separately and only have to change once per session.
There are kits you can get that are one of each but you still have to remove the second crimp die off the press anyway so I don't see that being a time saver. I find I still have to adjust the center pin to get the fold I want. Attachment 324614Attachment 324615

My parents gave me a .410 for Christmas when I was a teenager, I never found it lacking for any reason. I shot rabbits, coons, possums, squirrels and pheasants.
Perhaps it didn't put as much lead in the pattern, but if you did your part, it did its.
Now on the other hand these little .410 pistols give a bit to be desired, at least with small shot.
I have a Bond Arms Cowboy, a well-made stainless-steel derringer that fires 2 and1/2 inch .410 shells, I was only able to find 8 shot 2 1/2 inch shells so that is what I used.
This load out of a Bond Arms derringer seems pretty pathetic, at about 8 feet most pellets bounce off of a plastic water bottle.
With the correct load these pistols may be effective, but on anything other than small snakes I would not expect too much.
On a positive note, they are a hoot to shoot.

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Originally Posted by SSGOldfart

cream of wheat works on stray cats and bad dogs.:groner:

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No such thing as bad dogs and cats, just the people that own them.

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Originally Posted by DDriller

3" shells are doable on a MEC junior once you adjust the base and all the dies again. Instead of the hassle to switch back and forth between 2 1/2" an 3" shells a started roll crimping most of my 3" loads. MEC's biggest design flaw on the .410 is no hull support on the crimp stations.

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You need to have the 3 inch loading dies. I have both the 2 1/2 and 3 inch dies for my 600 jr.