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I didn't want to hijack Don's thread so have started this one, primarily to ask about the availability of plans for suppressors. I have the necessary relevant machines, raw materials and a moderate degree of working knowledge to produce the components. I am about to apply for the proper stamp and understand there will be a long wait until it clears but I'd like to be able to educate myself in the interim. Any links to available information is appreciated.
There are a number of plans and schematics available online. But I believe you will have to have a plan in hand prior to applying for your Form 1****
There is a forum for suppressors called silencer talk, I think a quick search will turn it up. LOTS of good info there.
If you are buildong your own, it is a Form 1.
A Form 4 is for transferring commercially manufactured suppressors or at least already manufactured suppressors.
The application, at least a couple years ago, did not require any plans, just a length, size/caliber, and serial number that would be engraved on it.
An efile of a form 1 is supposed to be rather quick (relative to the Form 4)
Apologies ...I need to wear my glasses.....Quote:
Originally Posted by BK7saum
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No apologies necessary. The paperwork is such a hassle anyway that I did want to the OP to fill out the wrong form the first time. I was not calling you out, just getting thr info out there.Quote:
Originally Posted by cwtebay
I have a few friends considering buying or building suppressors and they have a million questions.
I have two form 1 suppressors. For design, it's best to keep it simple like a K or M baffle. Lots of stuff floating around over at silencertalk. It can also be disheartening talking with suppressor folks as sometimes they dog on an easy to make design because there is a different design that might give slightly better machine sound measuring readings where as your ears can't tell a difference. Also consider making a 1 and done suppressor like a hybrid46. Anything that going to see lead should be able to be user serviced. It's been about 10 years, but besides your name, city/state, Model number, serial number to be engraved on the tube they wanted a length and caliber. Those were the old paper Form 1's. I've done the online form 1 for SBR and had it back in something like 18 calender days.
On form 1 suppressers is it possible to legally do multi-caliber design like these? https://www.silencershop.com/blog/po...ber-suppressor
All good info - thanks to everyone who replied so far.
For anyone else who is interested, this is a pretty good link for technical explanation: https://ideaexchange.uakron.edu/cgi/...earch_projects
Great post.Quote:
Originally Posted by HWooldridge
Even without the Nielsen device, the material cost of a home made unit will be in the $500 range. Not nearly as inexpensive as I had hoped. $900 for a commercial unit half the weight and "proven" is not outrageous after all.
I put a value of $15/hr on my spare time as I have a side business that earns over $20/hr. 33 hours of construction time is "worth" $500. That will not be a factor for others.
Hoping others will contribute more data on costs, time to construct and performance. No point reinventing the wheel IMO.
I could build them myself, but I have no experience in machining titanium and just want a nice "proven" design as you say.
Exotic metal gets expensive, and I just as soon not mess up a lot of it.
I have plenty of other projects to do anyway.
Thanks that will be helpful.Quote:
Originally Posted by HWooldridge
It can be made for whatever caliber you want and you can use it on whatever smaller than stated caliber meaning if it’s registered as a 30cal on the form 1 you can still use it on 223 or whatever as long as the holes in the baffles and endcap will work for the caliber it’s supposed to be. I use my 9mm form 1 on several different caliber firearms.Quote:
Originally Posted by M-Tecs
This is the milling plans I used for my ti 9mm form 1. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...3b89ac458c.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by elmacgyver0
The tube with the baffle stack and spacers. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...298e74e460.jpg
I agree with not reinventing the wheel - but I also think the DIY builder could simply use carbon steel and put up with a shorter lifespan on the components. I realize there is a weight savings with titanium; I also believe simpler materials would work.Quote:
Originally Posted by dverna
The first combustion chamber takes most of the blast so that portion could be made from hardened tool steel or some other exotic, while the other parts can be less expensive choices. I already carry a Walker Colt replica from time to time - weight is of little consequence for me, since I'm not planning to hump a pack for weeks at a time. A person can always try to improve their personal conditioning so a few more ounces won't matter.
@ Iron369, great workmanship and pictures - looks like you certainly have a handle on it.
I haven’t bought any parts or made any new form 1’s since the gubmint started harassing people for buying solvent trap kits and I got a letter from the ATF because I bought a non regulated item that they think could potentially possibly one day maybe be converted into something regulated. I did convert it to something regulated but not till after I had already paid the infringement tax so they “allowed “ it.
Yes you can make a multi caliber can. They're likely not going to approve "MULTI" just like on a form 1 SBR they no longer approve "MULTI" for the caliber even if that's what the receiver is marked. They will approve whatever is the largest dia you want it to be for which will also naturally fit any dia under that. The Silencerco Hybrid 46 is rated diameter wise up to .460". I have one and have used it on 17HMR on up to 450BM. My two Form 1 cans are a .22" for quiet plinking and a .38" that will take at least up to my 375Win or 375FUW. If I was smarter at the time I'd of gone with .46" for the .38" can and never bought a Hybrid (even though I really like it).
about 15 years ago a co-worker came to me and showed me a book he had purchased and it explained how to make a "military grade" AR-15 suppressor from very commonly acquired items and one machined part that anyone with machining skills could create ( you also had to be a pretty good welder of which I am not). I didn't have machining skills ( still don't) , but I read through the book and it did appear to be quite simple to make but I wasn't aware of form 1's and all that stuff at the time and I certainly wasn't going to risk getting caught with a non-regulated item ( not sure if I was more worried about my wife finding out or the feds) so that was the end of that. I don't know if he ever made one , he didn't say and I didn't ask.
I bought the Banish 46 because I figured on buying once and that would be it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moleman-
The Banish 46 is user serviceable and modular, otherwise pretty much like the Hybrid 46 and will work with anything that will fit down the tube without hitting the baffles.
Since it will work with ANY hi-powered rifle under 46 caliber it is pretty heavy even though it is almost entirely made of titanium except for the blast baffle which is Inconel.
The Banish 46 is rated full auto and I believe the Hybrid 46 is as well.
If you want a suppressor that will work with about any rifle, I believe either one of these will serve you well.
If all you are going to use it for is pistols, either one will work, but are pretty unwieldy for handguns even in the shorter configuration.
That is why I bought the Banish 45 for pistols and a Banish 22 for rimfires.
I should be receiving the 22 can by Monday.
Since I had the Banish 46 I decided to stick with the Banish line. They are pricy, but I figured if I'm going to do the hassle I might as will go for broke, what the hell I can't take it with me.
Isn't this a fun discussion? The same fella invented a device that is legally required (muffler), and one that is legally complicated (suppressor) FOR THE SAME CONCEPT!
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I enjoy machining titanium. Tool wear is greater but nothing insurmountable. Some tips here https://www.kennametal.com/us/en/res...-titanium.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by elmacgyver0
Even though titanium is used for high temperature applications titanium is flammable. Really dull tools can start a chip fire. I did it once. I had two parts left in a roughing milling operation I didn't want to change inserts until I switched to the finish cut. A chip ignited started the ones on the floor on fire.
https://flamevenge.com/is-titanium-flammable/
My two oldest sons were milling barrel hinges for a smoker they are making for an FFA project from bars of titanium that I had around. Told them to be careful, asked their shop teacher if she was familiar with it - she said she was. Well...... after the fire began, my boys elected to not allow the teacher to use the extinguisher - but threw a wool blanket over it. Can't say that was the perfect solution, but I guess that at least no one blew slag across the shop before putting it out!Quote:
Originally Posted by M-Tecs
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Class A, B, C, extinguisher not recommend. Class D extinguishers are recommend. They are not cheap. They are yellow in color. In industry I always had them handy. At home chip control and not pushing dull cutters and a bucket of sand will be what I use.Quote:
Originally Posted by cwtebay
I wasn't there - but I had told them that if a fire started to get away from it and don't use the extinguisher. The wool blanket???? No clue why they elected that. But all turned out well. I have several videos of the fire and it is more than impressive.Quote:
Originally Posted by M-Tecs
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An additional question on mounting systems…I have seen bayonet mounts used for muzzle brakes, generally on period rifles where barrel threads would ruin the original. One in particular, which was for a Moisin, had a slot that allowed the brake to be pushed onto the barrel then twisted a quarter turn to lock against the front sight. There were also three screws in the body, on 120 degree centers that both centered and locked the unit in place. This device worked perfectly fine for a brake, and it probably only needed an external sleeve to convert into a suppressor.
Does anyone use a slide and lock mounting system or is pretty much everything a threaded mount?
This is the brake, from Howling Raven: https://www.google.com/search?q=howl...-DPMU9bFc,st:0