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I was lead to believe reforming 32-20 brass to 25-20 is as simple as just running the 32-20 brass through the 25-20 sizing die. Well I can’t even get them to start without collapsing the mouths or necks of the Starline cases. Tried every type of lube I have but no luck. My 25-20 dies are from Lee. Is there a transition die I should be using?
Short answer to your question is yes. That transition die is your bullet seating die with the seating stem removed. Two other things you should do before forming 25-20 are run the 32-20 brass through a sizing die to make sure the necks are perfectly round and anneal the necks. It also helps to run the brass into the 25-20 sizing die in increments, and spreading the lube around between increments. I've been using this method for years and never ruined one. You might occasionally get a lube dent or two, but they will iron out with the first firing.
Especially with Starline brass do two things first. Trim for length to remove any flaw at the mouth - that will result in a seam that ruins the case. Secondly, anneal, Starline is hard brass.
The Lee seater die I have must be a different internal design than what you folks have. The case goes in all the way and never seems to touch the die??? What brand are you using?
I regularly bring 32/20 brass down to 25/20 and even further down to 218 Mashburn Bee. First I run the brass through a 32/20 FLS die, then anneal the brass, then run through the 25/20 FLS in three stages checking if the case lube is still working. In this process I lose about 5%.
https://i.imgur.com/6AFUHJMl.jpg
From the Starline site:
"*The SAAMI spec for .25-20 & .218 Bee is smaller at the base than the .32-20 which can cause clearance issues on some rifles."
Is this the run of nickel 32-20 brass MidwayUSA sold last week?
The brass is not nickel plated.
My dies are RCBS. Here's a picture of a 32-20, after a pass through the seating die, and a finished 25-20.Quote:
Originally Posted by Easty
https://i.imgur.com/seVjlDJl.jpg
I made a transition die from a bolt. It just starts the reduction toward .257 for about 3/16". Then I run them through the full length .25-20 sizing die. I only lube the case body lightly--no lube on the neck or shoulder. Rarely ruin a neck.
Looks like I need to get a RCBS seating die!
My .25-20 die set was made by Lyman, bought mainly for the M-die. I have formed .32-20 nickel plated brass (all I could find at the time) into .25-20. I think I lost about 12-13% but I didn't round out the case mouths or trim first.
Shortly after that I found a couple of partial boxes of .25-20 ammo at different gunshows; so I now have somewhere around 150 pieces of useable brass and for a singleshot rifle that may be enough.
Robert
Every time I'm reforming a case, I look for the R-P brass. In my experience, it's the softest. Also, I use a .270 REN die as a pre-sizer before the final .25-20.
I find that if I make sure there is no lube on the shoulder itself and form the neck in a couple of short steps that I get fewer lube wrinkles. Also, just a small amt of lanolin seems to be the best lube for me.
Loren
I have converted 100s of starline 32s to 25s. I use a very ligh coating of Imperial sizing wax.
1st, anneal the cases . 2nd , full length size in 32-20 die (mine are RCBS). 3rd, and this is important, lightly bell the case mouth, 4th, slowly resize the the case in the 25-20 die. I will lose about 3%.
My starline 32s, once resized to 25s, are several thousands short of listed 25 lengths. But the all work very well at match target shoots.
To do it right & not loose cases , you need forming dies. I start with a Redding 25-20 forming die. Then thru a Redding 25-20 neck sizer die. Finally a 25-20 FL sizer. Rarely ever loose a case.
Ok I will bite. Why bell the 3220 case if you are sizing it down to 2520??Quote:
Originally Posted by 38-72
I have thousands of both 3220 and 2520 cases so no need to resize! Yes, I had to be that guy. Lol
I finally had the best success using starline and other brass by
1. Anneal case area to be reformed
2. Full length size in 32-20 to uniform cases
3. A 3/8” long plunge in a 22 hornet seat die
4. A 3/8” long plunge in 22 hornet FL die
5. A full length resize in a RCBS 25-20 die.
Tried multiple case lubes all worked fine. Just use a very light amount.
After 50 cases. I tried full hard starline cases just
To test and 2 dozen reformed without issue.
My earlier attempts with a Lee full length 25-20 sizer to finish were all some form of damaged with the vent hole in shoulder of the die taking its toll.
The Lee dies worked fine for reloading just not for forming.
There are many methods out there. This one worked well for me.
Good luck. JS.
If you want to reform brass, especially bottle neck cases, you need to start with quality brass and use quality dies, plus you always clean, anneal and size the brass before you even think about reforming the brass. No short cuts, do it right.
I studied these two cases at length before deciding to build the gun as pictured. The 25-20 started life as a necked down 32-20. However, today, the 25-20 has different set of specification for the base and body, from the 32-20. If you analyze necking the 25-20 to 30 cal, you will basically find that you get an elongated straight wall 30 carbine with a rim. I use 32-20 and 25-20 brass both to create this cartridges. I use a 25-20 FL sizing die, cut off at the shoulder, then a 25-20 FL sizing die , then a die with 308 expander ball. Basicly, I form the 32-20 all day long to a 25-20 or the reverse then into a 30x25-20.
The idea was to create a revolver that used 30 cal rifle bullets at 150+ grains and 1,700 fps to take advantage of the BC of the rifle bullets, for distances of 200 meters with the terminal momentum suffcent to take down a 70 pound T-1 ram.
Illustration of the results. With 150s to 200s, you get this, for a 308 Revolver, which I built, made the barrel and cylinder inserts from a new rifle barrel blank, the long barrel nut, long barrel wrench, reamed the cylinder chambers on a 445 cylinder, chambered the cylinder chambers, etc:
I'm fortunate in that I do have a modest stash of 25-20 brass on hand. That being said I do reform 32-20 to 25-20 to add to them on occasion.
I have had good results running the 32-20 brass into a file trim die, usually in 3 or 4 stages at a time. I take my time and it works well for me.
I just saw your post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Easty
Did you ever get your case reforming sorted? I had two intermediate "dies" made, one at 7.5 mm and the second at 7mm using a couple of 7/8 x 2 1/2" bolts. Once they were drilled and the mouth chamfered the inside was highly polished. My gunsmith did the work but I would have been more than capable of undertaking the work if I had a lathe.
To form I used a dab of case forming lube on the inside and outside of the case mouth. After the intermediate steps I put them through the .25-20 neck sizing die and used them with no problems. In fact I still have 98 loaded rounds in my gunsafe and no rifle to use them in.
There are more than one way to get there....lots of good advice posted. I use a Redding .25-20 Form & trim series C #82318
to reduce the neck, then .25-20 full length size die. I keep case lube off the neck and very little on the body. Shoulder wrinkles
are the result of excessive case lube. As stated go slow. I use Star Line .32-20 cases..great quality!