My opinions on AirGuns and other ramblings

I have been admonished for "pumping up air guns". I am guilty as charged. Facts and common sense leave me no choice.

Within reasonable constraints, there is no cheaper way to achieve excellent accuracy than with a quality air gun. That will upset those who embrace cast bullets as the path to inexpensive trigger time, but it is reality.

The vast majority of my plinking is done at 50 yards or less. I suspect that holds for most folks. My PCP Huntsman shoots under .75" at that range at a total shooting cost of $30/k (including pellets, amortization of the tank over 15 years, and air fills at a scuba shop). That is based on 5000 rounds a year. Plan on investing $1700 (gun $1100 and tank $600) to get that level of accuracy. If 1" groups, or a bit more, are good enough, the DAR does that for under $400 for the gun. There are others just as good...maybe better? My guns are three years old and things change quickly wrt air guns. I have not kept up as I am satisfied with what I have.

I still shoot cast bullets in 9mm's and .38/.357's (pistols and carbines) but not as many. During the first .22 LR crisis, I was shooting over 15k cast bulleted 9mm's and .38 Spl's per year for less than the cost of .22's. Those days are gone for the foreseeable future. With what I now know, I will never go back to doing most of my plinking with cast bullets. I am a shooter. I have no great love for casting, sizing/lubing, policing/sorting/cleaning cases, or reloading unless I am saving money.

With today's component costs, it seemed to require a lot of mental gymnastics to justify casting and reloading to save money to plink. Then I had an epiphany. It may not be about "cheap shooting" for everyone....it could be about cheap reloading/casting. Some people shoot to reload and cast!!! Folks wired that way (and BTW that is not "wrong", just different) will despise air guns. They enjoy the process as much or more than shooting. If that is you, air guns are going to be disappointing and frustrating. Disappointing because you will miss the "fun" of the process...finding alloy, modifying it, taking an ingot and making bullets, lubing/sizing, cleaning grungy cases to get shinny brass, prepping brass, load development and reloading. Frustrating because you will be hard pressed to beat the accuracy of an air gun at 50 yards regardless of how much care you take with cast loads. I believe there are a handful of folks on this site who could do it, but anyone can buy a PCP that is capable of 3/4" (or better) groups at 50 yards...if they can shoot. Which brings up another rabbit hole...some folks are not capable. I find myself in that less than capable group.

I have the same gun as NSB and he shoots 1/4" smaller groups. I can do as well or better than him at times, but I am not consistent. Air guns groups are more affected by wind and that takes a different skill set than trigger/breath control, consistent stock weld, and follow through. It is good skill and you do not need to shoot at 300+ yards with a centerfire to practice it. Air guns do it cheaply.

BTW, my current "leaning next to the door" rifle for dealing with four legged varmints (I live rurally) is a 10/22. It is not as accurate as the PCP's but it has more power, range and is less affected by wind. I love PCP's for what they do, but they do not do everything well.

I believe in using the right tool for the job. Air guns rock for cheap trigger time; .22 LR is better for small game; lead bullets in the pistol caliber rounds work well for practicing; pistol rounds for "serious" work (in my calibers) call for high end jacketed bullets; the modern CF rifle works best with jacketed bullets. KISS

I used to shoot over 15k cast bullets a year. That has changed. I may shoot 3000 cast bullets this year. Cast bullets will always be part of my "habit" when they make sense.

Dverna you hit the nail on the head with this statement "Some people shoot to reload and cast!!!"

I've been looking at the Benjamin bulldog 357 because I want to cast for an air rifle.

I've been shooting mine into an improvised bullet trap in the back yard. Thing I don't like is the trigger is soooo different than any of my conventional rifles, that I wonder if my practice will carry over to them. My current air rifle is a Crossman Shockwave, nitro piston .22. It's doing good to keep an inch at 25 yards with a rest. I shoot about 4" standing now, and hope to improve.. jd

I agree as the right tool for each job is usually different , I find that the pcp rifles ( and I am up to 7 from 22 to 30 ) do indeed fit in with my needs , cast for some calibers , jacketed for others , 22lr for kids and some shooting , black powder cartridge and muzzle loaders all fit in with what I enjoy .

I will admit the 25 caliber is my favorite in the pcp .

I have an old spring powered Daisy that I bought when I was in High School. It says Made In Scotland on it and is 22 cal with a break open action. I have used it for plinking and have used a tracing of its stock to make a stock or two for shotguns that came to me without wood. The grand kids have also enjoyed this gun on occasion. I remember scrounging around right after " the election" for pellets for it and did find some at the Dunhams store here. This is not a high tech precision arm but it is still fun and cheap, my two favorite descriptives.Attachment 322634

I would never accuse Don "of pumping up air guns" from what I understands, he always uses a tank.

I own a few airguns. Couple I've had since I was young, and one fairly new Gamo Whisper I bought maybe 4-5 years ago?
I use my airgun to shoot when I don't feel like driving the 16 miles to the range, or just want some trigger time in the backyard. I really like it, and it's cheap fun.
I did have a very expensive Anschutz offhand rifle that used a scuba tank to fill it. I loved how accurate it was, but didn't shoot it enough to justify the money I had tied up in it.

Agree with Don all all points but one. Those who just enjoy the tinkering can still do so with air guns. Read some of Racing's threads. WOW
It isn't casting and reloading but there's plenty to tinker with on air guns. Get a PCP that'll shoot slugs and you can get your casting
fix in with those too. Don't forget the big bore air rifles

I'll tell anyone who will listen to me that an airgun is an excellent way to get more trigger time in. Where I am now, most have to pay for an indoor range to shoot firearms which adds to the cost. Plus, many of them make you buy their ammo to shoot on their range which is stupid $$$$. Now, you do need a place to shoot your airgun but that isn't hard to find.

I shoot my 20 year old Gamo 220 nearly every evening, usually off hand at 10 steps. A 220 is the break barrel style and mine is .177. The trigger is terrible and I have been contemplating a "charliedatuna" trigger, but am unsure how changing the blade would help. Any satisfied Charliedatuna customers?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by elmacgyver0

I would never accuse Don "of pumping up air guns" from what I understands, he always uses a tank.

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You are so right. This fat old man is not going to be shooting much if I have to pump them up. Lol.

Don, that is one of the best write-ups I’ve read on airguns. I agree with everything you said about them, and I’m pretty much in the same boat when it comes to “all around” shooting anymore. My days of 35k of pistol shooting are over, my rifle shooting is all about hunting, not mass volume shooting, and there’s a place for hunting with airguns, but overall the .22lr will get the job done better. But, there’s nothing like sitting in a blind in a good squirrel grove and shooting a bunch of gray squirrels with a PCP on a late season morning or afternoon. The airgun’s a great tool for hunting “small” small game. Anyone who wants to see the fun in hunting with an air gun needs to visit Robin Foxer’s videos. He makes a great case for using an air rifle to hunt and eliminate pests.

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Originally Posted by NSB

Don, that is one of the best write-ups I’ve read on airguns. I agree with everything you said about them, and I’m pretty much in the same boat when it comes to “all around” shooting anymore. My days of 35k of pistol shooting are over, my rifle shooting is all about hunting, not mass volume shooting, and there’s a place for hunting with airguns, but overall the .22lr will get the job done better. But, there’s nothing like sitting in a blind in a good squirrel grove and shooting a bunch of gray squirrels with a PCP on a late season morning or afternoon. The airgun’s a great tool for hunting “small” small game. Anyone who wants to see the fun in hunting with an air gun needs to visit Robin Foxer’s videos. He makes a great case for using an air rifle to hunt and eliminate pests.

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I owe you a lot. You helped in my early struggles with PCPs and sent me that pellet sampler and cleaning pull through whip.

You are wonderful testament to the kind of people we have on this site.


I will share what happened this morning with all of you. I was reluctant to start this thread. I felt some folks thought my love for air guns was “over the top”. I talked to my fiancé about it. She said, “Does it make any difference if the hole in the paper is from a bullet or a pellet? You shoot for hours off the back porch and I don’t have to listen to a bunch of noise. What’s not to like?” BTW, she is not hard on the eyes and not too shabby with a pistol or rifle. Got to love a woman like that. I suspect part of the reason she likes air guns because we to drive to Traverse City to get the tank filled. That means a nice meal and shopping “in the big city”. Women can be sneaky…lol.

I have decided not to mention air guns as much on the other sub forums to maintain harmony. Once the weather improves, I have some interesting testing planned. My air tank is full and I can't wait for spring. Stay tuned.

I have a Gamo Urban and use a hand pump (ugh) but I'm not ready to spend $3-500 for a compressor.
Currently it has an air leak in one of the seals (not the one at the fill port, I've changed that) so it hasn't been used in a little while, it got put on the back burner
with the approval of my 22 sparrow.

I bought a RWS Model 34 22 pellet rifle years ago thinking it would be fun to shoot cheap in the yard. I don't know, maybe it's lack of a BOOM or something but I don't find it very enjoyable. Hardly ever get it out anymore. Sort of the same thing with rimfires. Sure they go BOOM or at least Pop but I don't much enjoy just buying ammo and sticking it in the chamber when shooting. I like to be more involved with the ammo. Loading your own ammo, choosing the powder, deciding what bullet mold to use then choosing the alloy is a huge part of the fun of shooting for me. Sort of the same way with old cars. I have a good friend I used to work on cars with at least a couple nights a week after work. We would tear into any part of the car to make it faster or handle better. Spending countless hours poring over Racing parts catalogs considering what parts to buy. You feel like you are a part of the machine and there is a certain pride involved in what you accomplish when you get results. Of course, you may be able to go buy a new Corvette and likely beat what we put together but there is no sense of accomplishment at all in that - all you did was write a check. I guess it depends on what you want out of it.

Well said Don.

I also happened to run across that other thread where a mod "Admonished" you. I do not believe he was really upset with you. I think he was mostly jerking your chain.

It is a cast bullets site, but some airgunners cast their pellets. And some cast for holy black front stuffers, others for pistols, rifles, everything under the sun.
There is a lot of diversity here, which is a good thing.

On a side note I guess I am the exception to what you talked about. I enjoyed casting, lubing, sizing, reloading. But it was also jobs that had to be done before I could shoot again. I also enjoy airguns. I have yet to step into PCP's, once through that door you can not come back. I like the single shot pump up guns the best. But I also have a pair of Hatsan .22 that I dearly love. As I age and with covid I am shooting much less at the range. It is almost Feb and I can not remember the last time I cast bullets. Was a while back. While I enjoy it, it also takes time away from other things I love.

Hang in there Don, your doing great.

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Originally Posted by 35 Rem

I bought a RWS Model 34 22 pellet rifle years ago thinking it would be fun to shoot cheap in the yard. I don't know, maybe it's lack of a BOOM or something but I don't find it very enjoyable. Hardly ever get it out anymore. Sort of the same thing with rimfires. Sure they go BOOM or at least Pop but I don't much enjoy just buying ammo and sticking it in the chamber when shooting. I like to be more involved with the ammo. Loading your own ammo, choosing the powder, deciding what bullet mold to use then choosing the alloy is a huge part of the fun of shooting for me. Sort of the same way with old cars. I have a good friend I used to work on cars with at least a couple nights a week after work. We would tear into any part of the car to make it faster or handle better. Spending countless hours poring over Racing parts catalogs considering what parts to buy. You feel like you are a part of the machine and there is a certain pride involved in what you accomplish when you get results. Of course, you may be able to go buy a new Corvette and likely beat what we put together but there is no sense of accomplishment at all in that - all you did was write a check. I guess it depends on what you want out of it.

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Good post.

First, I had the same RWS and did not like shooting it. I put less than 1000 pellets through it. It was "work" to shoot 100 rounds and using a springer off a bench is awkward. PCPs changed that.

Second, you represent the other side (the majority?) of people who enjoy casting and reloading. It is a about the journey as much as the destination. Putting holes in paper or ringing steel is boring for a lot of folks.

As an example, when we travel, we like road trips. If we are going to Florida, we can't wait to get past Ohio and into the more southern states where we enjoy side trips to "tourist traps" and finding good restaurants, especially good southern barbeque with real sweet ice tea!!! Getting to Florida is as much fun as being there.

I am in the minority. If I never cast another bullet, or reloaded another round, I would not miss it. I have been down the road of chasing sub MOA groups in hunting rifles (jacketed of course) and one day realized it had no practical justification for my needs...it was about bragging rights with my buddies. I tried getting sub 2 MOA with cast in my .308 and gave up. Even if I got it to work, I was not going to invest that much effort to put holes in paper in 200 yards. I would never hunt with cast and I was buying .224 bullets for $420/6000 so what was the point?

The only reason I cast bullets is to save money. That adds up when shooting 15k rounds a year, not so much for a hunting rifle that sees less than a box of ammunition a year. I have never had to feed a "weird" caliber but that is a niche that makes casting and reloading necessary.

There is no right or wrong answer that works for everyone, and shooting is a BIG TENT.

I still shoot the powder burners and understand where you are coming from.

I imagine repeating PCP rifles are fun in the same way a semiauto 22LR rifle is fun (at first). But I don't have a semiauto 22LR rifle, anymore. I haven't even shot 22LR but maybe twice in the last 5 years.

I take a few shots with my multipump and springers pretty often. To stay in form and for fun, but not really in extended shooting sessions. The things I ever shoot with them are so small and fast I'm only going to get one shot and I'm not even going to see it from 70 yards... because I don't currently care to shoot any birds sitting on a branch or wire. My pests are small rodents.

Tanks, compressors, o-rings, magazines... it's a lot just to get off that one shot. I don't have any CO2 airguns, either. Those are fun like repeating 22LR, at first. But not much use to me once the novelty wears off.

It truly is “different strokes for different folks”. Sometimes you just run out of fun doing one thing to excess. I spent a lifetime going through different shooting disciplines trying to master them. I used to shoot 20k rounds of shotgun a year for quite a few years getting into Master Class sporting clays. What did I get for it? Nothing really. I shot three gun matches for Hodgdon for several years and burned through 30k of handgun and 35k of rimfire every year. Same results in the end. After you do it all, it’s never the same when you try it again. It’s just not much fun anymore. Getting into PCP airguns is/was something new again that hasn’t run its course….yet. Is it expensive to buy a good gun, gas bottle, scope, etc? You bet. But compared to everything else I “invested” my money it, it’s no worse. What makes this site as good as it is, is the diversity of the people on here. If you want to spend a lot of time casting I say go for it. To me it’s like me tying my own trout flies. I spend hours doing it and in the end I could have just bought them and caught the same amount of trout (to be honest, I’ve actually bought some the last couple of years). What ever you want to do, enjoy it. You only go around once. I respect everyone’s choice.

I have always had BB guns and pellet guns and time to time play around with them.
I bought a Gamo Whisper .177 springer, never used it much. My dad's cousin gave me a little Hy-Skor .177 springer Mod 806 to see if I could fix it.
It was in pretty sad shape, pellet would fly maybe 20 feet when fired.
I gave it a good cleaning, repaired the stock and refinished and lubricated it.
It probably works as good as new now. I took it back to him and said here you go, my compliments, he said, "keep it it's yours".
I don't shoot it much, but it is special to me because of who gave it to me.
My dad's cousin was an old WWII vet. Over the years he saved me all the blank brass from VFW events he participated in, not to mention a sling he gave me marked 1944 for my M1 Garand, he seemed tickled pink that I had an M1 Garand, he carried one all over Europe during WWII and had a great respect for the weapon.
He never spoke much of the war, and I did not pry, he is gone now and I do miss him.
Sorry for the rant.
Back to the subject, I bought a Hatsan .25 cal springer, very powerful for anything I care to shoot with it but would not play nice with my ATN 4K night sight.
I bought a Hatsan .25 cal PCP bullpup, the Flashpup in .25 caliber, I was hooked, and the night sight was awesome on it.
Since then, I bought two more cheap PCPs, they do what I want, so I don't see spending anymore, for now.

If it flies, goes bang best does both I like it. I do a lot of things just to know that I can. Brew beer, make wine, bake bread, smoke meat, grow vegetables, make BP, make lube, cast bullets, repair guns, cast brass, zinc and aluminum. I love the Crossman CO2 pellet guns. I wanted to prove I could shoot sub-MOA groups with cast bullets, spent a bunch of money and effort but once I did, I moved on to other things. I built a 30 Cal. CO2 Pellet gun using a Paint Ball gun as the basis. It is rusting right now. It worked, cool. Done, next thing. I bought a 9mm PCP repeater, cool, sort of. I got a compressor because the pumping was a pain. I rarely shoot it even with the compressor. I don't hunt so it does not really have a use but except maybe in an emergency or a time when ammo is illegal. I enjoy shooting when I have a goal or to teach or entertain someone else. I don't really enjoy casting or reloading and I can afford to buy all the ammo I would want to shoot. I mostly reload to be prepared for whatever or to feed guns that you can't buy ammo for, or for things like shoot sub-MOA groups with cast or sub-0.25 MOA with jacketed bullets. I bought a 6mm PPC benchrest rifle because I wanted to know if the reason I was not shooting many sub-MOA groups was my skills, my ammo or my guns. Turns out it was mostly the guns but I did learn a few things that help me shoot my other guns better.

I think air rifles, PCP, CO2, pumps, springers etc. have their place and they are the best for some things.

One of the most fun guns I shoot is also the cheapest. It is a Marksman springer pistol that will shoot small darts. Cool indoor target practice and just plain fun with friends. I wore the first one out and now have a second one. I don't know why everyone does not have one of these, they are less than or were less than $20.

https://www.bradfordsauction.com/auc...tol_32E4DB9BC7



Tim

Well Don, i about couldn´t agree more.
Although hunting is part of it to me so is competing, and no.. i do not compete using air guns.

https://i.postimg.cc/yx7GwsC2/9.jpg

A few of the disciplines takes that there. A full blown Sauer competition rifle, and yes.. it IS that good. It´s a competition Sauer rifle, you expect that and yes.. it holds true. You do the math, go figure. In my world worth every dime.

The whole PCP thing started out me going after rodents but as i run a machine shop, sorts of, one thing led to another and here we are.

I too shoot 22lr..and then again compete doing so as well.

https://i.postimg.cc/QCnzHDqM/8.jpg

So that there is MY Anschütz 1416. Nope, they don´t make KRG stock for ´em.. i run a machine shop remember? Accurate? Yeah well, using SK Long range i get serious sub MOA at 100 so.. yes. It´s an Anschütz, what can i say?

To me though, i´m an old hotroder at heart why the REAL neat thing to me is finding what´s bang for the buck. Just as with old souped up cars, so called sleepers in my book are just to die for.
Here n there with the PCP´s.. you find those, and i´d say i just did.

https://i.postimg.cc/1zJ2CVn7/34.jpg

Just today i tried them there out, the 42 grain H&N hollow points "massive expansion".
Did so in..

https://i.postimg.cc/GmnWHCnK/33.jpg

..that there. There´s a post on it, the Reximex Meta Premium. Thing is a laser tossing them 42´s the north side of 1000fps and see.. that brings that it actually WILL hand any 22lr a run for the money 7 days a week. Yeeeeez.. as a "hunter 22lr" too...
In turn the development as far as pills n PCP for the moment.. It´s nothing short of insane. This then at HALF the hang tag of an FX Impact M3.
Don´t get me wrong.
Love my M3 (just as much as that by me hand built Anschütz)...
Be that as it may, solution to all ills then?
Of course not.
What i´m saying is that what reels me in is the ability to TUNE a PCP rifle to suit SO many different shooting situations by mere change of pills and turning a few screws/adjusters.
Powder burners simply do not do that, cater to it.

Seeing what FX just brought out (the DRS and DRS Pro) coupled with what Reximex has just put into market.. i say very interesting times are ahead. the DRS Pro to compete directly with the PRS guns for trophys..
The Rex offering to show that really WELL built and designed PCP´s are becoming more n more affordable.

It was bound to happen i guess? Seeing how many a high end manufacturer has been going at it for years it was BOUND to happen that the "mid range folk" caught up and simply made a very similar mouse trap at HALF the cost to the customer.
That´s a win if you ask me.

Don´t get me wrong. I´ll keep at it souping up performance, no matter what you put into that phrase, upcoming too. Of course i will, but then and again you run into something that almost feels to good to be true and wanna share the experience.
Well, this one is one of those and by that is sorts of a mile stone.

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Originally Posted by Racing

.... what reels me in is the ability to TUNE a PCP rifle to suit SO many different shooting situations by mere change of pills and turning a few screws/adjusters.
Powder burners simply do not do that, cater to it....

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Are you kidding me. Nothing is more catered to versatility than .22 rf. From blanks and CB caps to Stingers and everything in between. From no bullet to shot to bullets from 29 gr. to 60 gr. frangible, solid, hollow point, plated or lubricated. Some people here have a supply of primed empties that they load with black powder.

I don't have anything against air guns. I have plenty. I also own a couple Anschütz. Can't claim I can shoot consistently under an inch at 100 yards, that is hard even with good equipment.

Hand loaded ammo is as versatile as any PCP if you cast your own bullets and buy or swage jacketed bullets.

No PCP will match the range of performance that my .22 Hornet has. I can shoot a .22 air gun pellet using just a primer, a 40 gr. plain base cast bullet at .22 LR velocity, a 50 gr. cast bullet with a gas check at .22 Mag velocity or a Hornady 37 gr. VMax bullet at 3000 fps. Try and match that with a PCP.

Air guns are great but don't over state the case.

Tim

I´m not.
By a landslide even, which it seems is something many an enthusiast hasn´t grasped yet.

For instance. Many of these PCP´s sports "power dials" making that AS IS you can alter 22 to 25cal performance from approx 40J into supersonic by the turn of a dial if so setup. What that brings is a multi task tool where you don´t have to carry different ammunition to cater to a wider array of tasks. Same gun, same pills for shooting doves within a barn as a racoon at 100 meters.
Many others sport dials to alter hammer spring and what not to the same end result. Fact is as i´m mainly night time shooting my biggest issue with them for pesting is running out of battery for my IR and thermals. That´s saying something..

All you need to do up front is qualify the PCP in case for the given settings and you´re done. No. No need to replace the ammo. No, no need to carry spare mags. No, no need for "handloading", of any sorts actually, and at that at coffee n change money vs a powder burner.

Sure. 22lr ammo can be come by on the cheap in bulk, no argument on that one. Most likely not the SK Long range i use tho (or any other "higher end" ammo in 22lr).

Pills for a PCP in turn, if you wish, you can qualify just as die hard as i do for my powder guns, netting the approx same result.

So yeah. I guess i´ll stand by that statement until you prove otherwise actually.

Don´t get me wrong. Love my powder burners and when more "substantial" amounts of power is needed they are, and will be, my go to.
For the smaller caliber stuff tho.. not so much anymore.
Like it or not.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Racing

I´m not.
By a landslide even, which it seems is something many an enthusiast hasn´t grasped yet.

For instance. Many of these PCP´s sports "power dials" making that AS IS you can alter 22 to 25cal performance from approx 40J into supersonic by the turn of a dial if so setup. What that brings is a multi task tool where you don´t have to carry different ammunition to cater to a wider array of tasks. Same gun, same pills for shooting doves within a barn as a racoon at 100 meters.
Many others sport dials to alter hammer spring and what not to the same end result. Fact is as i´m mainly night time shooting my biggest issue with them for pesting is running out of battery for my IR and thermals. That´s saying something..

All you need to do up front is qualify the PCP in case for the given settings and you´re done. No. No need to replace the ammo. No, no need to carry spare mags. No, no need for "handloading", of any sorts actually, and at that at coffee n change money vs a powder burner.

Sure. 22lr ammo can be come by on the cheap in bulk, no argument on that one. Most likely not the SK Long range i use tho (or any other "higher end" ammo in 22lr).

Pills for a PCP in turn, if you wish, you can qualify just as die hard as i do for my powder guns, netting the approx same result.

So yeah. I guess i´ll stand by that statement until you prove otherwise actually.

Don´t get me wrong. Love my powder burners and when more "substantial" amounts of power is needed they are, and will be, my go to.
For the smaller caliber stuff tho.. not so much anymore.
Like it or not.

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I am not against PCP guns, I have one. I am against exaggerated claims.

Big bore PCP's have only handgun ballistic capabilities.

Smaller bore PCP are lacking bullet weight and velocity. You can tone down a centerfire .22 or fire it at full power that is more than twice what a PPC can do and can a PCP launch a jacketed hollow point fast enough for explosive terminal ballistics? I understand that it does what you need it to do but that does not count a versatility. Really is it that much harder to reach in your pocket to grab a different round than it is to adjust the regulator on a PCP.

PCP projectiles lack also in ballistic coefficient, they have a lot of drop and wind deflection.

There is still a lot that PCP cannot do well.

Every gun is a compromise toward a desired goal. PCP has a niche, but it is a niche tool.

Tim

Apples and apples now please.
If that slipped, i´m of course comparing to the most common caliber there is. The 22lr.

When i state that a 22 or 25 PCP will do what a 22lr does.. what´s wrong with that? Cause it does, there´s no novelty to that what so ever IMO.

"Big bore" PCP´s, i honestly fail to see the point. Thus, don´t own one n never will.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dtknowles

I am not against PCP guns, I have one. I am against exaggerated claims.

Big bore PCP's have only handgun ballistic capabilities.

Smaller bore PCP are lacking bullet weight and velocity. You can tone down a centerfire .22 or fire it at full power that is more than twice what a PPC can do and can a PCP launch a jacketed hollow point fast enough for explosive terminal ballistics? I understand that it does what you need it to do but that does not count a versatility. Really is it that much harder to reach in your pocket to grab a different round than it is to adjust the regulator on a PCP.

PCP projectiles lack also in ballistic coefficient, they have a lot of drop and wind deflection.

There is still a lot that PCP cannot do well.

Every gun is a compromise toward a desired goal. PCP has a niche, but it is a niche tool.

Tim

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Good answer. Unfortunately, many get on here, and other web sites, and make grossly exaggerated claims. Anonymity and a keyboard aren’t facts.

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Originally Posted by 35 Rem

I bought a RWS Model 34 22 pellet rifle years ago thinking it would be fun to shoot cheap in the yard. I don't know, maybe it's lack of a BOOM or something but I don't find it very enjoyable. Hardly ever get it out anymore. Sort of the same thing with rimfires. Sure they go BOOM or at least Pop but I don't much enjoy just buying ammo and sticking it in the chamber when shooting. I like to be more involved with the ammo. Loading your own ammo, choosing the powder, deciding what bullet mold to use then choosing the alloy is a huge part of the fun of shooting for me. Sort of the same way with old cars. I have a good friend I used to work on cars with at least a couple nights a week after work. We would tear into any part of the car to make it faster or handle better. Spending countless hours poring over Racing parts catalogs considering what parts to buy. You feel like you are a part of the machine and there is a certain pride involved in what you accomplish when you get results. Of course, you may be able to go buy a new Corvette and likely beat what we put together but there is no sense of accomplishment at all in that - all you did was write a check. I guess it depends on what you want out of it.

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That sums me up about as well as can be. I just enjoy "tinkering" more than anything.

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Originally Posted by KenH

That sums me up about as well as can be. I just enjoy "tinkering" more than anything.

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Exactly Ken!!! There is no one size fits all.

I hate to tinker so something that does what I need out of the box fits my personality. I admire guys like our member (P Fladios???) who is creating a necked down 9mm for cheap plinking for HIS needs. I have lathe and might be able to do what he has done, but it does not "turn my crank".

I started in air rifles with a Weihrauch HW95 springer. I was 79(I'm 81 now) when I got it and really enjoyed shooting thru the back door of my garage. Enjoyed it until I over did things with a 200+ shot day. Cocking that thing that many times left my right arm stressed beyond belief. It took me almost 2 months to recover.

Enter dreaming about a PCP. dverna's posts about his Daystate Huntsman convinced me that I needed one. By this time the Daystate Huntsman Revere was available. It's slightly more convenient being regulated. Now I've managed to acquire a tank and compressor. I really enjoy shooting out of the garage in warmer weather. Anything lower than 40º here in Tennessee chases me back inside. Right now I'm looking forward to Spring.

I haven't given up casting and reloading. I've just embarked on powder coating my cast boolits. This promises to be an activity in itself.
I also am going to try a suppressor on the CZ .22 rifle if my older son ever decides to go ahead and pull the trigger on one and also set up a trust just for the suppressor. That will make it easier to pass on the sons and grandsons when I take the dirt nap.

dverna

I want to thank you for convincing me to get a PCP. I found, at a local auction, a Benjamin Discovery with hand pump and scope for around $250. I know it's not a high end PCP but it will group under 1" at 50 yds which is better than all but one of my 22 lr rifles.

It didn't take long before the hand pump thing got old but someone on this forum told of an inexpensive Vevor 12v/110v pump for $175. I got one of those and several tins of Crosman hp pellets and a suppressor. I'm set.

I still cast for all my powder burners as I enjoy that as well but the PCP just adds to the shooting habit at very low cost. 1.5 cents per round is hard to beat.

Totally in with OP's thoughts.
The family and I shoot "powder" guns a lot !! Kids all started around 4-6 yo.
And we all shoot pellet guns - a lot !!
No driving to range, etc.
Tried to wear out a Webley Tempest - bought used, still going strong 30 + years later.
I lucked into an FWB 300 waaaaaay back in the day.
THAT got everybody hooked on precision.
Trigger control, etc. I think these skills transferred to cartridge firearms well
Teen kids were hitting empty 22 cases at 30 yds (24x scope) 5 for 5
The kids are in their 30's, life, their kids sports, etc get in the way of range time.
But, BBQ in back yard ??? Haul out the pellets papaw !!! We wanna shoot.
Just invested in an Air Venturi Avenger PCP (and electric pump !!)
All kinds of settings to fiddle with - and grand kids don't have to struggle with that pesky side lever on the FWB. (rough work for an 8 yo).
Air guns have a place, just as cartridge guns do (and the holey black too)
Training young'uns, (and us old'uns). Trigger control, safe handling, keeping muscle memory fresh.
Dumb AirSoft guns even have their place when I can't get out to ring steel with my "social" guns.
Funny thing, g-kids not so much into AirSoft.

This became a looooog post to just say, use ALL the tools we have to train, instruct, and just have fun.

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Originally Posted by birdshot

I shoot my 20 year old Gamo 220 nearly every evening, usually off hand at 10 steps. A 220 is the break barrel style and mine is .177. The trigger is terrible and I have been contemplating a "charliedatuna" trigger, but am unsure how changing the blade would help. Any satisfied Charliedatuna customers?

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Yes I installed the new trigger, I believe it is now called GTX III. It has been a wonderful improvement over the original. Worth every penny. All pellet guns are diet picky so you have to experiment to find which pellets perform best in your unit. My Gamo 220 in .177 loves 7.87 JSB Exacts and 7.5 Crosman Destroyers. I have a long list of what it doesn’t like. Enjoy

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Originally Posted by rbuck351."……………………………………
……. I want to thank you for convincing me to get a PCP. I found, at a local auction, a Benjamin Discovery with hand pump and scope for around $250. I know it's not a high end PCP but it will group under 1" at 50 yds which is better than all but one of my 22 lr rifles.

It didn't take long before the hand pump thing got old but someone on this forum told of an inexpensive Vevor 12v/110v pump for $175. I got one of those and several tins of Crosman hp pellets and a suppressor. I'm set.

I still cast for all my powder burners as I enjoy that as well but the PCP just adds to the shooting habit at very low cost. 1.5 cents per round is hard to beat.[/QUOTE

Congrats on the Discovery purchase. The Crosman HP pellets are a so-so pellet for accuracy. To get a better representation of the capabilities of your Discovery you’ll need to feed it better pellets. Might I suggest first try JSB 18.13 Exact Heavy, then JSB 15.89 Exact Jumbo, and H&N 21gn Baracuda/Beeman Kodiak. I’m sure one of these will bring a big smile to your face. Enjoy

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Originally Posted by osbod007

Yes I installed the new trigger, I believe it is now called GTX III. It has been a wonderful improvement over the original. Worth every penny. All pellet guns are diet picky so you have to experiment to find which pellets perform best in your unit. My Gamo 220 in .177 loves 7.87 JSB Exacts and 7.5 Crosman Destroyers. I have a long list of what it doesn’t like. Enjoy

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thanks osbod007, I will order one now.

osbod007
I'm sure there are better pellets than the Crosman HP, in fact the RN premium shoot better for me. However I can shoot my 22lr cheaper than those high priced pellets. I have a Savage 1919 NRA target rifle that will shoot bulk Peters 22 ammo between 1/2" and 3/4" at 50yds.

The PCP is great for trigger time and is also great for up to 50yds on small pests. When past that range the drop becomes more of an issue than accuracy and it starts to become less lethal on all but the smallest pests.

I'm not into bench rest accuracy but want guns that will put bullets into the kill zone of whatever critter I want to put down. As range increases, air guns loose killing capacity unless you move up in bore size. As you move up in bore size, the cost of pellets and the guns goes up a lot. I already have 22h, 22kh, 223, 243 and larger with enough components to shoot as much as I want for the rest of my days. I'm not interested in buying pellets at $80+ per thousand.

I have recently come to realize that won't use up half of my components or 22lr in my remaining days or for that matter the amount of pellets that work good enough for me.

I was not satisfied with the cheap air rifles I had and got the Discovery at a decent price. It and the Crosman RN pellet work fine for me.

Loving my Benjamin Kratos PCP. The kids and I burned it down Sunday afternoon with no noise which is my concern on Sundays. Using the cheap crossman pellets we had tons of fun shooting all sorts of things for a couple of dollars.