Powder Coating Buckshot

I was powder coating some 45/70 bullets last night and had a thought
Setting there was about 10 lb of #4 buckshot that I had cast a few weeks ago
I wondered if powder coating would help with the pattern at longer ranges ?
As I use #4 buckshot when we hunt coyote and being able to get good patterns at 70 - 80 yards is a plus

So I powder coated a hand full of the #4 buckshot

Non of the bullets or the buckshot have even been removed from the baking sheets

But I am wondering if anyone else has tried powder coating buckshot ?

Your thoughts
John

I think there was a thread on that exact subject a few weeks ago...

I saw that post in a search
But I was looking more at the patterning side

John

Wade Rush has some videos on Youtube about powder coated buckshot.
The channel name is Bubba Rountree Outdoors. Great channel overall, but especially if you're casting and loading buckshot.

Thanks
I will look at his channel

John

I don’t think it would make the pellets harder like nickel plating, but the coating could change fitment in the wad. It might do some voodoo going through the forcing cone or some black magic sliding through the choke! Looking forward to seeing your results!

Do you ever use any buckshot larger than #4? I’m thinking about trying #2 next. BPI buckshot manual shows it fitting in the wads in stacks of four...

I plan to buy one of Marty’s Molds once I settle on a load I like.

My "Thoughts" are that the powder coating is slick
So I am hoping it helps with the passing through the choke

No , I just did #4 Buckshot that I cast with a LEE Mold
As that is what I had handy and I use the most
I am also about to start testing some 3 1/2" loads of #4 Buckshot

John

I started at the other end with a Lee 000 mold before I knew any better. Bigger is better, right!?! What I didn’t know before I started loading them was they don’t fit into a shot cup in 12 gauge. So I’m working in the direction from large to small. I bought #1 buckshot to try instead of buying another mold. I’ve thought about the Lee #4 mold, but I think the top cavity gets a pretty big cut from the sprue cutter on 000 and figured it would look even worse on #4. Have you checked the weight difference from the top of the string vs the other two pellets? Is that mold a pain to cast with?
Thanks

I've found that .31 caliber pellets fit enough different shotcups to do what I want, mainly kill Coyotes. Buffer seems to make more difference past 40 yards than pc does. I've settled on MP molds 8 cavity .310 molds. There's no clipping like Martys' and they really do drop .310. I tumble them in a HF rock tumbler for 12 hours and they are round enough to fly true.

The #4 LEE Buckshot mold works good
No clipping needed
I found my mold produces great round buckshot if I run the mold a bit hotter than some of my steel molds
Also leave a good puddle of lead on top

I do roll all my buckshot I pour between 2 steel plates
This sort of smooths off any minor imperfections from where the balls meet

John

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arkansas Paul

Wade Rush has some videos on Youtube about powder coated buckshot.
The channel name is Bubba Rountree Outdoors. Great channel overall, but especially if you're casting and loading buckshot.

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Thanks for the tip
I watched 2 of his videos so far
I also copied down his 3 1/2" recipes
As I have everything expect the buffer
The only thing I will have to change is how much height of 20 gau card wads I use
As 2 oz of #4 buckshot will not fill the hull as much as the larger buckshot he was using

Thanks
John

surprised you fellas arent using #BB for this job...
our wallabies run up to 40kgs/100lb and have similar if not heavier muscle structure...lead #2 was far and away the best option on them with BB having SLIGHT edge on longer shots. we tried various buck shot loads but found the more even and dense patterning BB or #2 worked far more reliably..... up close I would back either of those loads against pretty much anything,not a lot I havent shot with #2 lead
maybe try a duplex with say 4 of your buckshot and remainder of payload BB and see what pattern board tells you??? nothing to loose and it might just be the ducks nuts.

Milky Duck
The reason I and a lot of people use #4 Buckshot or even larger , is range
With #4 buckshot I can harvest a coyote out to 75+ meters ( 80+ yards )
We many times will get a coyote to stop at 50 to 300 yards out at night as we are calling
Then they are a easy shot for the person with the rifle , mainly a 223 or 22-250
But other times the coyote dose not want to come in close and or stop
So a moving shot is taken with the shotgun
A few nights ago we were using a coyote challenge call
Mating season is on , so the males and females drive off or try to kill and other male or pair trying to take their mate or area
The males would come in to 50 or so yards looking for the other coyote
Not seeing another coyote they tend to leave FAST
So as soon as the coyote would stop and start to look around
One of us would shoot

John

I don't know if the current BPI swaged Buckshot is the same as it used to be. It was able to be Oven heat treated on the old stock bottles that I have.
That increased the hardness substantially, and reduced deformation.
I would assume that PC buckshot patterns about the same as copper plated. The core hardness of the pellet is unchanged.
HT and water dropping changes the structure of the whole pellet.

Just a few thoughts,

Greg 5278

My thoughts... Might not help as much as just tumbling in graphite. Here is why I think that... When I tumble my shot I do it with some 45cal balls, these help to round out the shot. It kind beats the flats and points from cutting them from the Lee gang mold round. Sure, the PC could be better than graphite. But you'd need to tumble the balls first. If you're tumbling without graphite I'd be cautious of lead on lead friction creating more than normal amounts of lead dust... Sure I be it could be figured out one way or another. Maybe lubricate the balls before tumbling then soaking in acetone to remove the lube. Just seems like a whole new step that isn't exactly needed or possibly even beneficial... Just my .02

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Johnch

Milky Duck
The reason I and a lot of people use #4 Buckshot or even larger , is range
With #4 buckshot I can harvest a coyote out to 75+ meters ( 80+ yards )
We many times will get a coyote to stop at 50 to 300 yards out at night as we are calling
Then they are a easy shot for the person with the rifle , mainly a 223 or 22-250
But other times the coyote dose not want to come in close and or stop
So a moving shot is taken with the shotgun
A few nights ago we were using a coyote challenge call
Mating season is on , so the males and females drive off or try to kill and other male or pair trying to take their mate or area
The males would come in to 50 or so yards looking for the other coyote
Not seeing another coyote they tend to leave FAST
So as soon as the coyote would stop and start to look around
One of us would shoot

John

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ok thanks for that...... try a pattern for grins n giggles I do know the good goose loads would still be rather potent at 50 yards...the heavishot stuff you fellas can get would be a real game changer..I mean if they can shoot canadas at 50 yards with #6 shot a #2 MUST surely be feasable????
Ive see nwallabies dropped cleanly at 50 yards with lead #2

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Johnch

My "Thoughts" are that the powder coating is slick
So I am hoping it helps with the passing through the choke

No , I just did #4 Buckshot that I cast with a LEE Mold
As that is what I had handy and I use the most
I am also about to start testing some 3 1/2" loads of #4 Buckshot

John

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I was just looking at Lee Buckshot molds. They have them listed by diameter, Is #4 0000 buckshot .24?

Yes 4 Buckshot is .24

John

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Iowa Fox

I was just looking at Lee Buckshot molds. They have them listed by diameter, Is #4 0000 buckshot .24?

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#4 buckshot is 0.24" or 24 caliber.

0000 = 4/0 = 4 "ought" and is 0.38" or 38 caliber.

#4 and 0000 are not the same thing.

I'm going to be following this thread as I'm always interested in improving patterning of buckshot.

Someone found that it takes something smaller than 00 to fit in a normal shotcup. Single 0 is good there, and patterns better than 00 in most cases. One to consider is #1. They fit in rows of 3 in a heavy walled shotcup. BTW, Cerillos (of NYC stakeout squad) favored #1 for more pellet on target. I killed deer with it with my ML shotgun in SC. Yeah, they were small deer, like boxers with antlers. When it comes to #4, which is often required as minimum by the state (NM isone), works great. The best I've ever fired was the original Hevi Shot T buck. Stuff like that very expensive nowadays. Back to doing the best we can with #4 buck.

Nickle Plated Buckshot

Someone mentioned this as "hardening" the pellets. It is only a coating. I pattered different 00 buckshot loads a decade ago. The plated but not buffered S&B shells were not exciting. At the time the best I found was the reduced recoil police Remington eight pellet load, which was buffered and not very hard lead pellets. I believe that reducing velocity reduces pellet deformation and thus improves patterning. I'm talking about no more than 20 yards now which was my specified distance as I was looking at personal protection. I never tried them at LONG distances.

My go to factory load for defense is the Remington 8 pellet load, followed by the Federal 8 pellet load.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rattlesnake Charlie

Nickle Plated Buckshot

Someone mentioned this as "hardening" the pellets. It is only a coating. I pattered different 00 buckshot loads a decade ago. The plated but not buffered S&B shells were not exciting. At the time the best I found was the reduced recoil police Remington eight pellet load, which was buffered and not very hard lead pellets. I believe that reducing velocity reduces pellet deformation and thus improves patterning. I'm talking about no more than 20 yards now which was my specified distance as I was looking at personal protection. I never tried them at LONG distances.

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I cast my own #4 buck and load a 2 and 3/4 hull with 15 gr. Of titewad with a cb 0178-12 wad and 17 #4 pellets for home protection. Very good pattern. I shoot these out of a remington tac 14

Once you bake the powder coat on the lead will lose all the chilled hardness you may have added. That is to say if you heated your Buckshot to about 440°F and dropped them into water they will be harder than as-cast. If you then tumble them the chilled hardness disappears as lead work - softens unlike steel that work - hardens. Same thing with reheating the shot. My cast rifle/ pistol bullets are sized then chilled (my alloy works best at 450°F as 460°F some will sag or remelt altogether) then lubed in a die that is at least 0.001" larger to not work the bullet lands.
The problem with uncoated buckshot is the setback at firing literally solders the pellets together as well as deforms them. Graphite, nickle, copper or powder coating keeps them from sticking together. The shot column will not break apart uniformly. Because I double chill my buckshot after tumbling for 10 hours the steam blows any graphite off the shot. I use Hornaday's spray case resizing lube on a flat cookie sheet to coat the buckshot as it is inert to powder and primers and prevents the buckshot from sticking together on firing. And my alloy is 11+% SB so it is about 18-20 Bn after chilling. Anything to keep it round...

KB

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The other day I test fired 2 different #4 Buckshot loads
Both were the same load
But one load used powder coated and the other non powder coated #4 buckshot from my LEE mold
All of the #4 Buckshot was cast from a alloy that is 3/4 WW and 1/4 Linotype

I use a Steel Shot Wad the CSD114 wad
These come un slit
So I added 3 slits 1/2 way down the wad for this test
20 gau card wads
I used Steel Powder Lot #2 , 100 PSI wad pressure
CCI 209 M primer
52 #4 buckshot pellets
BPI Original Design Buffer
Federal Steel Shot 3 1/2" hulls
Remington Versa Max with a 28" barrel
A 30mm UltraDot Red Dot
A extended range buckshot choke tube , Carlson’s Coyote Choke

Not sure of the velocity

The test shots were shot at 60 yards

The BIG limiting factor is ME
As recoil is STOUT
So I only shot 3 of each load

I used a 8 foot x 12 foot chunk a 3/8 plate steel painted with cheap white house paint
With a 4" black dot painted on with spray paint and a cardboard stencil

After each shot a measured the spread and marked down pellet hits and locations in a note book
Then the steel was repainted

The powder coated pellets max spread was on average 3" smaller at 60 yards
All 52 of the #4 Buck Shot hit the steel every shot
Average spread for the Powder Coated pellets loads was 46"
Average spread for the Non Powder Coated pellets loads was 49"
Centers of both loads were about 10" below Point Of Aim
So I will raise the sight about 8" when I do more tests

With these results I do not plan on powder coating more #4 Buckshot for coyote hunting

I talked to a guy on his powder coating buckshot loads
He told me he did his testing with 9 pellet loads of OO Buckshot for deer hunting
But the buckshot was not contained in a wad like my loads

John

Someone previously in this thread mentioned that you loose any hardening from quenching or age hardening when you powder coat.

My question now is "Can you quench right after taking out of oven for powder coating?"

Too cold here right now to be in the workshop casting or anything else.

If the buckshot is in a wad there is not much point to PCing the shot. No brainer i would have thought but still interesting that it may have made a small difference.

That’s good and thorough research Johnch!


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Milky Duck: Are you allowed to own Pump or Semi Auto Shotguns in AUS ?

IF your Shotgun has a Fully Rifled Barrel is it a classed as a Shotgun or a Rifle?

I've heard too many conflicting answers to these questions. What is the real scoop?

With respect to the Thread Topic,,,

If your shot is in a Shot Cup, Powder Coating is pointless. If there is no Shot Cup, it might help a little with Shot Deformation going thru the Choke. (lubricity)

Randy

How hot is the oven? You need the shot to be around 400°F for any effect. Buy a cheap HF rock tumbler and put a teaspoon of graphite in with the shot and run it 10 hours. Round shot graphite coated in one pass. Only if you want super hard shot do you need any more than that. 5% Sb gets you to about 10Bn hardness as cast and that is twice as hard as pure lead.
Just my 2 cents....

KB

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I'm kind of surprised nobody mentioned tumble lubing to achieve what the OP was looking for. I tumble lubed some 30 cal round balls to shoot in my Nagant pistol, and they seemed to work just fine.

Wayne

I hitek coated 00 Buckshot...Attachment 324733

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ausglock

I hitek coated 00 Buckshot...Attachment 324733

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Did it improve patterning any?

Not really.
But they look cool with a clear plastic overcard...lol

AUS Glock: What kinds of guns are you allowed to have in AUS? Pump Shotguns? Semi Auto Rifles or Shotguns? Pistols?

Is a Shotgun with a Fully rifled barrel classed as Rifle or Shotgun?

RANDY