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My cast bullet usage has been speer swagged and lubed 148 hbwc and lasercast and gas checked in 30 caliber.
My question is that when i tried the rifle slugs, the leading was atrocious so somewhere i read about using regular lithium grease and johnson paste wax on their own as bullet lubes.. didnt actually help with accuracy or fouling, and i think increased fouling.
Anyways.. is there a means to make a simple product like these "ok" lubes on their own for short term use?
Welcome to the forum.
It'd be a big help to give some cartridge, load, and speed sort of data.
More info. on load data, alloys, etc. is most helpful.
There's a bit more to solutions with cast than universal, one size fits all type answers.
There is a sticky up above - Lube recipes - peruse this and then down to "Making Ben's Red" just below this.
Lube can help, but a problem with many purchased cast bullets is BULLET FIT. Many vendors only provide .309 cast bullets for the 30 calibers, sometimes they work, but many times a .310 or .311 is needed. Shopping around to find different diameters can result in very good accuracy with purchased cast bullets. Some vendors will also provide cast diameters that you request.
I typically resize and lube my Boolits with Ben’s Red and then coat them with Ben’s Liquid Lube and have not had any leading issues.
magnumuser,
welcome to the forum.
Casting/reloading for Rifle is kind of "advanced", compared to low power pistol, like 38 Spl and 45acp. So maybe you want to start out casting for pistol.
With that said, Lead fouling is rarely related to lube. It's typically caused by undersized boolits ...and too hard of a alloy can make it even worse.
If I were to suggest a simple lube to a newbie, it would be the Old NRA formula.
1/3 Vaseline
1/3 beeswax
1/3 paraffin wax
An improvement to that would be to use less Paraffin and add a little bit of Ivory soap.
6 oz Vaseline
6 oz beeswax
1 oz paraffin
0.25 oz Ivory soap, shaved in thin slivers.
when you cook this, add beeswax last, after the soap has completely melted into the mix. Remove from heat at that moment, stir until beeswax is completely melted.
JPW is expensive, I have no idea as to why.$160.00 I don’t think it would be my choice.
https://www.amazon.com/Johnson-Paste...3-0e5c1a776d5d
JPW has been discontinued, now making it "rare" hence the high prices on ebay and Amazon.
Minwax and Trewax both make a similar product that is close enough to use instead of JPW...in fact, it might be identical?
But, I strongly dislike the Minwax company, so I'd buy Trewax. My local Ace Hardware has Trewax for $13.
I got the JPW because i ran across a method to use it as a tumble lube,,, it didnt work very well for me and its been sitting around. Then i found a "recipe" that mixed it with a lithium grease.. that mixture turned to road tar in my .308
I assume that if i dig around in the closet, i can just use standard parafin tea light candles.. and do a simple double boiler operation with it?
The double boiler and tea candles will work fine for the first recipe. But the second recipe with soap needs more heat than a double boiler can deliver.
Mix that JPW with Lee's Liquid Alox, then thin that with a bit of mineral spirits, works good for a tumble lube with 38 spl type loads. I've heard of guys using JPW by itself for tumble lube, but I am skeptical of that. Alox based recipes work pretty good.
Unless you just gots to make your own lube, White Label Lubes have ALL the lubes you would probably ever need, proven and usually cheaper than trying to make your own. LS Stuff, www.lsstuff.com,
tumble lubes, softer lubes, high speed lubes, take a look.
I'm with Uncle Grinch. never a problem.
interesting company, decent prices. My main interest was to use up crap laying around the house.. as im somewhat tired of spending money right now. And i dont have a lubrisizerQuote:
Originally Posted by MostlyLeverGuns
magnimuser: Welcome to the site. Folks here are usually really helpful when someone has a problem. Unfortunately, so far all we know is that you're shooting a 308, and your lube doesn't work very well. It would be really helpful if you could tell us more information like; What velocity are you shooting? What diameter are you sizing your bullets to? What powder & charge are you using? All of these things can help people figure out what's probably going on with your loads, and how to help you make better ones. Johnson's paste wax is already soft, and adding lithium grease to it will only make it softer. A lube like that might be (just) OK on low velocity/low pressure pistol cartridges, but would probably not be a very good choice on rifle loads. Generally, for rifle loads you would need a stiffer lube. Try blending either carnuba or bee's wax to JPW instead of grease. If need be you could even melt down some crayons or candles and add some JPW to that and it would be better than grease.
To get a better understanding of how cast bullets work, and everything that's related to them like what causes barrel leading, what alloys to use, and how lubes work, download a free copy of this book: http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_textonly2.pdf
Magnumiser - Slug your barrel. If your purchased bullets are not sized properly for your barrel, then the only thing you can do to save these bullets is powder coat them.Quote:
Originally Posted by MostlyLeverGuns
the lead mine is all focused n the 4-5 inches closest to the case mouth.. and 90% of the leading does dissapear whence I load the laser cast 170 gr GC to molded crimp groove. But that length cant function in the magazine and is still a pain for single loading.Quote:
Originally Posted by justindad
ruger american magazine angle makes the tip and side of slug hit metal at the same time. But rifle feeds 180 gr Remington factory ammo like warm grease.
loading the slugs deep so they DO feed, the lead mine is horrid. And for some reason it blows the gas checks off of each one. Spent an afternoon wondering how the gas checks were laying on the shooting table under the muzzle.
The commonest cause of leading is gas melting of undersize bullets ......a very simple cure using you existing setup is enough filler between powder and bullet to make a gas sealing plug ...... a gas check made of whatever vegetable fibre suits you.....I use wheat bran ,but anything thats fibrous and non abrasive is just as good.........a filler will also remove existing leading ,eventually.
+1 on the White Label Lube. Reasonable prices,nice folks,GOOD STUFF.
I know it has been asked previously, but exactly what cartridge are you working with. We know you talk about 30 caliber, but that does not really help much. Further, you say that when the bullet is seated and crimped in the crimp groove, you have an over all length that does not fit the magazine. Then when seated shorter, you get leading in the first 5-6 inches of the bore and the gas checks come off. You need a different bullet. And you need to provide more details to get good responses.
THIS thread has been FASCINATING reading for someone whose bullet-casting skills and experience are at the lower end of the spectrum! The recipes for bullet lube fascinate me.
I'm guessing there's not really a common nor economical substitute for beeswax, right? I'm in an area where beeswax is neither very common, nor inexpensive to obtain. Conversely, a great many "man made" lubricants for different applications are available to me in sample-size quantities, almost on demand.
Black MoS2 has long been a magic ingredient in lubes ,but many shun it because of the black stains on clothing .......however there are similar white lubes such as planar boron nitride ....anyone tried them?
The OP doesn't give enough information to comment on things like powder charge and powder choice, or cartridge velocity, but he did point out one thing that's more than likely contributing to his barrel leading. He said that his bullets wouldn't fit in the magazine, so he is seating them deeper, and he also said that his gas checks are coming off. Just in general, it's not always a good idea to seat a cast bullet with the gas check below the case neck. Not always, but quite often, if the gas check is extending into the cartridge case body, when the cartridge is fired hot high pressure gas will flow around the sides of the bullet eroding the bullets base. At this moment the gas check cannot possibly seal the bore because it is just hanging out in mid air, and the lead vapor rich combustion gases are going to flow past the bullet.
The OP didn't tell us his load, but gas blow-by can occur if the velocity is above that recommended for most plain based bullets. Once the bullet leaves the muzzle the combustion gases are going to cool, and the lead vapor is going to plate out on the inside of the barrel. As soon as there's enough lead deposited on the inside of the barrel it will begin galling and smearing more lead from the surface of passing bullets and make the leading much worse. If the barrel leading is occurring near the muzzle end of the barrel it usually indicates that the bullet lube is either running out, or just not doing a good enough job. If the barrel leading is occurring on the breech end of the barrel it usually indicates that gas is blowing past the bullet. Gas blow-by can be caused by bullets that are too small in diameter, alloys that are too hard and don't obdurate properly to seal the bore, or by having too much of the cast bullet extending back into the case body.
Remedies in this situation require you to first remove the lead fouling from the bore. A generally good method to do this has been to wrap a wad of Choir-boy copper scrubbing pad around a bore brush and use that along with barrel cleaning fluid to scrub the lead out of the bore. Make sure to use only copper pads, and it will take lots of scrubbing and cleaning. Once the barrel is clean slug your bore so you'll know what the land and groove diameter is. You'll want to use cast bullets that are around .001" or so larger than the groove diameter of the barrel in your firearm. Some folks will tell you that you should size your bullets to fit the throat - that's good advise, but you need to get an engine running before you can hotrod it, so having the bullets .001" over groove is a good starting point. Next, when you load your ammo, do not seat the gas check below the case neck. If the gas check is at the case shoulder or above it, that's fine. If it's seated low enough that powder gases can get around it it's going to cause problems. This is especially true if the cartridge is loaded to higher velocities and pressures. Not all, but most cast bullet rifle loads shoot their best at under 2000 fps. If you're trying for higher velocities and have the gas check extended back inside the case it's probably going to cause problems. Not only will the gas erode the bullet's base and cause leading, but a bullet damaged in this way wouldn't likely be very accurate.
magnumuser: You sent me a PM, but I cannot respond. Here's why:
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Go to your settings and see if you have this feature turned off. I'm not sure, but maybe you need to have a higher post count or something. Either way, I have the answer to the question that you were asking. Send me another PM once you've got it sorted out.
read the profile icons on the side..Quote:
Originally Posted by 405grain
If huge amounts of pump grease worked fine for Elmer and Skelton... why do we seem to have such issue finding "high tech" lubes that struggle due to insufficient lubricant volume per bullet?
Wasn't there a lube called Lith-Bee? Lithium grease and Beeswax. I don't make my own lubes anymore as White label lube works well and the price is spot on
John.k----Hexagonal Boron Nitride has been used on Jacketed bullets, but as far as I know, not boolits
Leading at the breach is poor bullet fit, not upsetting, not plumping up to fill barrel, gas cutting; leading at muzzle is running out of lube;
Lithium grease (can it still be bought ?......everything I see now is 'microspheriods').........anyhoo ,I ve found a NLG2 Lithium soap grease to be second from the bottom ......white Al soap food grade grease is absolute worst...I used masses of grease on the old dragline ....a drum a week at times ,greased every 4 hours according to the manual...........anyhoo,I sold the land ,and left the dragline there ,as well as a shipping container full of army surplus grease.