Wanting to try a nice air rifle. Kratos or.....

I've been wanting to try a nice air rifle for a while now. I'm pretty set on a PCP as I am chief of the local fire department and have full access to the air system which can provide 6000psi. I've looked at several and the wood stocked rifles are really speaking to me though that's isn't a deal breaker. I've looked pretty hard at the Benjamin Kratos. I've seen them for $589 fleabay to $702 from crossman direct. So .25 or .22 cal and why? Most shot will be inside 50yds I would suspect. Won't be used for hunting unless it takes an occasional squirrel that is causing problems in my building but the 22k hornet is really geared for that. What other options do you recommend? I'm not set on Benjamin but FX and daystate are out of the question.

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Originally Posted by brokeasajoke

I've been wanting to try a nice air rifle for a while now. I'm pretty set on a PCP as I am chief of the local fire department and have full access to the air system which can provide 6000psi. I've looked at several and the wood stocked rifles are really speaking to me though that's isn't a deal breaker. I've looked pretty hard at the Benjamin Kratos. I've seen them for $589 fleabay to $702 from crossman direct. So .25 or .22 cal and why? Most shot will be inside 50yds I would suspect. Won't be used for hunting unless it takes an occasional squirrel that is causing problems in my building but the 22k hornet is really geared for that. What other options do you recommend? I'm not set on Benjamin but FX and daystate are out of the question.

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I have eleven PCP arms, of five different manufacturers. If I was asked, should all be lost, which I would purchase as a first replacement it would be, without a doubt, the Benjamin Marauder pistol in .22. Attachment 318528 Several reasons include the stock is readily removable so you have -- at your whim -- either a hand held pistol or a shoulder-able carbine; I have two and both are "scary-accurate"; you get a lot of shots from one air-fill; using a magazine OR the also supplied single-shot tray -- either is your choice. It is also quite light to carry; VERY easy to put on a 'scope should you elect. (Mine are both scoped) And, in the realm of prices -- rather fairly affordable -- imho a real bargain for what one gets! If you are so inclined, there are quite a few aftermarket add-ons as well. Lastly, my two are not in any way toooo pellet-picky. I have pellets in the "high" cost range, and found the el cheapos shoot almost -- if not AS -- well.
You asked... what I would do :)
geo

I have a Daystate Huntsman with a HUMA regulator and it shoots as well at 50 yards as any of my excellent target .22lr rifles. That’s saying a lot, one of my rifles is an Anschutz and another is a CZ. That being said, when my neighbor/hunting buddy asked what he should get I told him the Marauder. Why? It’s less than half the cost and shoots 90-95% as accurate. On a dead calm day I can shoot the Daystate into .5” five shot groups at fifty yards. My friend can shoot his Marauder into an inch or less for half the cost. Also, the Marauder is made in the USA and parts like magazines are five times cheaper than a mag for the Daystate. The Marauder is the best bargain out there. Oh yeah, you can also get the Marauder with a Lothar barrel for a few extra bucks. Geo is spot on with his comments.

I've only got one pcp, my Air Venturi with wood stock and in 25 cal. I love it and deadly accurate. Can't go wrong with the prices on them either. Good luck.
Ron

You have received good advice. NSB helped me out when I went down the rabbit hole

I would strongly suggest staying with the .22. Both of my PCP rifles will shoot the cheap Crosman 14.3 pellets into under an inch at 50 yards. Not bad for pellets that are less than $7/500. The JSB’s and Air Arms will shave about 1/4” off the group. You can shoot the Crosmans all weekend for less than $10 and get very good accuracy.

The .25’s are costly but will buck wind better and be more effective on varmints, but like you I have better options for critters.

I have two friends with Marauders and they love them, but my Daystate is more accurate. Not sure it is worth $400-500 more. One thing I do not like about the Marauder rifle is the weight.

I think a Marauder is kind of a no brainier as they have a long history. The Craftsman line of Turkey made Crossman are doing well it seems and parts and tuning are becoming available.

Both mine are Air Arms, very hard to beat, quality and accuracy at the finest.

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Originally Posted by georgerkahn

I have eleven PCP arms, of five different manufacturers. If I was asked, should all be lost, which I would purchase as a first replacement it would be, without a doubt, the Benjamin Marauder pistol in .22. Attachment 318528

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+1 we have the same Marauder. I enlarged the tport to .143" iirc, it gets less but noticeably harder hitting shots.

I think I'm going with a rifle either way.i love opening the basement door and laying on the rug just plinking away at what ever I see. Shooting dirt clods yesterday with a 22lr and a Gamo break 22 air rifle.

Have a look at the Air Venturi Avenger, At Pyramyd Air. $350 and mine is a .25 and is scary accurate and more powerful than any of my Springers. I got a Spiritech Compressor off Amazon for about $300 and am set up for a long time.

Randy

I like how you can have Pyramyd Air test a gun before you receive it. Found another company that certifies Benjamin rifles to shoot slugs and pellets to a dime size at 30yds for about $30 more.

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Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan

Have a look at the Air Venturi Avenger, At Pyramyd Air. $350 and mine is a .25 and is scary accurate and more powerful than any of my Springers. I got a Spiritech Compressor off Amazon for about $300 and am set up for a long time.

Randy

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I have the same one but with a wood stock. Love it.

I would stongly suggest a USED Brocock Bantam or other Brocock in 22cal. I have bought 2 on the Airgun Nation classifieds for under $600. used and both are great rifles. High quality and tackdrivers. Brococks are made by Daystate.

I think Geo nailed it with the Marauder pistol. Wouldn't think of using it as a pistol but it is an amazing carbine with the stock on it. Also very easy to fill with a hand pump.
If I were to start over this would be my 1st pick. There's an outfit called Buckrail that among other things makes a tube you can screw
on the receiver to take AR type stocks. I find I get a much better cheek weld with it than the one that comes with it.
It's a tiny bit more powerful than my springer and a LOT more accurate. Was surprised how nice the trigger was on a gun at this price too.
There are TWO Marauders, a rifle and the pistol. They are completely different. Heard good things about the rifle,
but no experience with it.

My suggestion for all it is worth, is you want a wood stock, buy something with a wood stock, if you don't it will always be eating at you.
Not an air rifle, but I bought a Henry H010X because of the rifled barrel, it no longer sports a plastic stock, it now has an American walnut stock of my own making.
Actually, the Marauder sounds like a nice gun I would not mind owning, I could always make a nice wood stock for it.
Brain Fart!! I meant "Threaded Barrel".

Marauder is on my list for sure. Pyramyd Air has 20% off right now.

I´ll differ a tad, in a positive manner.

The Marauder is what we´d call a mid range hang tag gun and that there mid range as far as PCP´s is an absolute hornets nest. There´s SO much to pick from it gets silly.

What clouds the picture a little is the ever ongoing progress as far as PCP´s in as much.. take the Avenger for instance. About a year ago everyone and his grandmother "needed" an Avenger.
A year has passed and that fad has both come and gone. However, the point is that it´s STILL a good gun!

I guess what i´m saying is that my vote would no doubt go for a used piece, whatever that piece turns out to be. In short to get more for your hard earned dollar.
Thing is that a used PCP, midrange and up, almost always carries with it that it has rarely seen service and.. they will take that. One of my personal favorites is when they show up for sale "broken", which always almost comes down to picking the piece apart, replacing the occasional o-ring AND clean its innards up.

Fact is.. i´ll start yet another of my threads in a few mins.. talk about semi high end at bargain prices..

I've been watching classifieds over at airgun nation for a while now

Good call.

Just read your BSA thread. Good write up. Wish I had more time and skills.

Thx.
Just be aware that far far from all "broken" PCP´s are on the level of that BSA. On the contrary, most PCP´s are rather simple to the build, especially so the non reg ones and at that rate it more often than not comes down to replacing the occasional busted o-ring.

Keep in mind that i´ve been doing this for a while and thus can go after projects that´d make most ppl frown. Keep heavy machinery as TIG welders and what not to back that up so..
Most enthusiast are not even close to that, which i fully appreciate.

However.
To replace the occasional broken o-ring or malfunctioning regulator you need none of that heavy machinery and what not. It´ll suffice just fine with regular hand tools.

Btw. Check out the pinned post on that Kral Puncher Breaker of mine too, valuable lessons to be learned there too (as many other former posts of mine on the subject TBH.).

I keep an older PCP Beeman Theoben Rapide that is 25 caliber at my South Florida house in the Keys. The 25 cal pellets I like are the 31 gr H&N German conventional pellets. Had a 5mm Sheridan that worked well too. We have a infestation of South American Iguanas an hour south of Miami. The Beeman gun shoots like it has eyes! I charge the gun with a 3000 lb scuba bottle through a newly added Foster guick fill connector. Just won a new GX CS2 PCP Air compressor in an auction for $100. I pumps to 4000 psi. Going to try it too. Now in Monroe County discharge of a firearm is illegal. Too many people live on the island. Air rifles are allowed and work quite well. A can of pellets will pile up a lot of Iguanas. But if you compare the cost of ammo: 22 LR ammo is $ .06 to $.07 per round. My bolt action suppressed 22 is quieter than my PCP air rifle. The .25 cal 31 gr pellets cost $.06/ round About the same as standard velocity 22 long rifle ammo. I like air rifles and pistols but the .25 cal pellets cost the same as 22 Long Rifle ammo. No difference in killing power! The .25 Beeman drives a 31 gr pellet right through a big fat Iguana as does my 22 Marlin. But I am not breaking any local ordnances with the PCP Beeman.Attachment 319061

Kratos is a tac driver with AA pells. The only negative i have had is the wood had no finish on it. That was easily fixed and I love it. on Flebay you can find barrel bands. I do recommend them!

Recently got my hands on a Benjamin Cayden. I think it is essentially the same rifle as the Kratos you were looking at but with an
air tube rather than a bottle. Not had it long enough to get a good feel for it but can give some quick comparisons.

The stock feels unfinished but feels nice nonetheless. Will be a easy to fix.

It is more pellet picky than my other PCPs but does really like the Crosmans you can find at any Walmart. It shoots the new JTS pellets
lights out.

Really like the foster fill fitting so you don't need a special probe.

Like the Picatinny rail for scope mount and it comes with another rail mounts underneath for bipods and such and it comes with sling swivel
studs in the stock. If you will be carrying it much a BIG plus.

It isn't as nice as the Daystate but the price is considerably less. So, if your still after something nicer, I think you're on the right track.

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Originally Posted by buck1

Kratos is a tac driver with AA pells. The only negative i have had is the wood had no finish on it. That was easily fixed and I love it. on Flebay you can find barrel bands. I do recommend them!

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What is the purpose of the barrel band?

Well I just ordered a Kratos from Airgun Revisions. Decided to go with 22. Added his service inspection and tune kit. With the $39 service he tests and I Believe lists the pellet it likes most

Attachment 320009
50yd 12 shot group air arms pellets. I'm happy thus far.

Attachment 320010
Cheap Walmart pellets at 27yds 12 shots
Attachment 320011

Still not had time to really see what my Cayden (same rifle with different air tube) likes best but the cheap Crosman pellets are
definitely in the top three so far. Wanting to find a slug it likes to extend hunting range

Air Arms 16g tightened my 50 yard group by almost half

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Originally Posted by brokeasajoke

Air Arms 16g tightened my 50 yard group by almost half

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Will have to retry those, they weren't in my top three...

H&N and JSB were also recommended to me

I shoot outdoors and deal with wind constantly. Pellet testing is much different than wringing out a load with a CF rifle. I am not good at "reading the wind". and pellets are very wind sensitive.

IMO the same pellets will have significant group size variations from hour to hour over a long session and if winds are shifting, and day to day. Selecting the "right" pellet is not something you (or should I say I) can do by shooting five 5 shot groups.

Here are my 50 yard results. Guns "like" different pellets so you need to do the testing and decide what works for you.

As a preamble, I tested at least 15 different pellets. Many were eliminated after one or two groups, and I ended up with five pellets worth the effort of extensive testing.

After a handful of preliminary testing the AA 16.0 gr seemed to be "the" pellet. Half of the first 10 groups, shot on a "good' day were .5" or less! I the ended up shooting 69 groups. The day to day variation was driving me nuts, but 69 groups averaged .70"

Next up, the JSB 15.89. 45 groups averaged the same .70". I understand JSB makes the AA pellets so that might explain the similar results.

The two H&N pellets I tried were unimpressive. 20 groups with the 21.14 Match pellets gave .88" and 19 groups with the Barracuda Hunters delivered .87".

The Crosman 14.3 gr pellets yielded .77" for 45 groups.

My gun (or my ability?) made the decision to go with $7/500 pellets easy. Spending 3x the money to get 1/16" better groups was not worth it.

I had a .2" group with the AA pellets and it is easy to fool yourself when that happens. And the out of the first 10 groups, half were .5" or less. It was one reason I shot 69 groups...hoping to find the "magic". But the .2" group was "luck". Still a great pellet, but not a .5" pellet in my gun with this guy operating it.

IMO I need to fire at least 20 groups to know how a pellet will perform. If someone is a better shooter they may need less.

Luckily, I enjoy shooting, so it is not onerous for me. I will put up a target with 5 dots and have at it. BTW. notice the "flier" in almost every group.

Attachment 320101

At 6-7 cents each or more I'm going to do most of my shooting with the cheaper Crossman or may even try another brand and reserve the better pellets when accuracy dictates. Popping cans, cheap cookies, or what ever else that doesn't require minute of big accuracy will get more affordable options.

Got the Athlon Talos and Burris signature zee rings installed. A scope that focuses down to 10yds is extremely nice.

Have you experimented with the power adjust screw on the left side of the rifle? My Cayden came set at or near max. Not had time to try mine yet, Curious how much
velocity difference it can make.
Just got a cheap chronograph that will get a real workout soon

Not yet been waiting for deer season to be over as I have been taking my son every chance I've got which isn't much. I haven't chronographed it at all yet. It is set as airgun revisions shipped it after their tuning kit installed