Will the USA be judged for its rebellion?

As we celebrate Independence from Britain, are we mocking God's word and His authority?

Romans 13:
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, 4 for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. 7 Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.

The main reasons for the Revolutionary War were discontent regarding Britain imposing new taxes (which they had the authority to do), and their desire for more control of the colonies (which they also had the authority to do).

It does not appear that Britain was evil and that seems about the only reason the Bible speaks to for not obeying the government.

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Originally Posted by dverna

It does not appear that Britain was evil

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As with other governments and revolts--- how good or evil the govt. is will be a matter of each person's perspective.

During the American revolution, some people were loyal to the Crown, some didn't really care one way or another,
and some felt quite oppressed by various actions of the British govt. not just the taxation.

The United State's may be judged more for this KJB Genius 13.13. Just Saying

Ever noticed that verse's numbers match our first flag.

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Originally Posted by dverna

As we celebrate Independence from Britain, are we mocking God's word and His authority?

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It does not appear that Britain was evil and that seems about the only reason the Bible speaks to for not obeying the government.

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It seems that there is a different observation of Historical Facts at play. The British WERE PERCEIVED by many of the Colonialsts as evil. The British citizenry of England were allowed to go about their daily activities - provided they conformed to the "Dictates of the Crown" - punishment from diverting from the "Dictates of the Crown" included incarceration for debts, called debtors prison (whether incurred by oneself voluntarily or from unbearable taxation by the crown), incarceration for real or perceived offenses to the Crown with no obligation for a trial unless the Crown decided to do so (unless one was a member of the Select and Privileged Classes), and of course the "Horrendous Torture of Prisoners" at the discretion of the Crown or the Crowns delegates.

In the Colonies; those who offended the Governor, could receive the same type of treatment - or be thrown in irons and shipped to England to "Answer to the Crown".

As I said; the interpretation of Evil may be different for different people. The Creator will determine if the decision of a person or peoples to resist a governance (Caesar at biblical times such as documented in ROMANS) because it was evil.

No, and I’m not sure what a country being judged by God would even look like. We tend to aggregate folks onto groups because we haven't the capacity to consider each person individually, but God has no such limitation. I don’t believe that the USA was blessed by God, rather a large number of individual people in the USA were/are blessed and we incorrectly attribute the aggregate effect to a blessing of the country.

About Paul’s comments, I think either the bible is invariably correct, and I don’t understand him, or it is not and his statements are demonstrably false. Consider “Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment” in the context of war between two governments. In that context, is not one authority appointed by God resisting another authority appointed by God? Who will be judged for this, which state, leadership, soldiers, citizens? Perhaps at the time of his writing all governmental authority was appointed by God, but is that still true today? At that time the American Indians were tribes, your question focuses on our fight with England, but our forefathers “resisted” American Indian authority much more fiercely than it did the English Monarchy, and it seems fair for the Indians to have considered Europeans to be evil…so are “we” (whoever that might be) to be judged for that? Maybe that’s a question for late November.

Off the cuff I think he was saying “we’re not overthrowing the government, be good citizens and good christians” but I haven’t studied it at all.

The Stamp Tax Act of 1765 was repealed in 1766

The Townshend Tax Act of 1767 was repealed in 1770...expect for the Tea Tax.

And we all know English tea is an essential commodity that Americans had to have to survive. Some Americans had to resort to Dutch tea for comfort.

BTW, the real losers wrt to the Tea Tax were...follow the money...American merchants:

"By allowing the East India Company to sell tea directly in the American colonies, the Tea Act cut out colonial merchants, and the prominent and influential colonial merchants reacted with anger."

In fact, the Tax Act lowered the price of tea to the colonies:

"The act granted the company the right to ship its tea directly to the colonies without first landing it in England, and to commission agents who would have the sole right to sell tea in the colonies. The act retained the duty on imported tea at its existing rate, but, since the company was no longer required to pay an additional tax in England, the Tea Act effectively lowered the price of the East India Company’s tea in the colonies."

For a full read of the Tea Act:

https://www.history.com/topics/ameri...lution/tea-act

In my opinion, at the start until well into the process, we considered ourselves Englishmen, and we wanted the rights of any English subject. Increasingly we felt we were being subjugated in a way that made us lesser subjects - two different systems, with ourselves getting the short end of the stick relative to Englishmen in England. That drove the ire through much of our growing discontent. Not taxation per se, but "taxation without representation." So when William turned as obdurate as granite, he horribly miscalculated and the rest is as they say history.

This lined up with the growing embrace of "natural law" - Locke, with some Rousseau tossed in - and the notion of an immutable, universal, divinely-bestowed set of rights governing all mankind in civil society, as distinct from the "state of nature" theorized by Hobbes, Locke, Rousseau and many others. To me of all the Founders, Thomas Jefferson was probably the most fervent believer in this ethos: his adaptation of Locke, "All mean are created equal....inalienable rights....life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

I'll tell you one thing - thank god we were colonized by the British. Colonization under Spain or Portugal, well, I feel blessed.

I reminded of Daniel. He obeyed King Nebuchadnezzar and faithfully served the King in all things expect his faith. Daniel kept his faith in God and would not bow down to the idols of Babylon.

At that point, Romans had not been written, yet Daniel submitted to the reign of the King that had defeated Israel.

We glamourize our Revolution and justify it. We want to believe it was a "just" revolution in God's eyes and that He interceded on our behalf. But there is little or no foundation in the bible to support that...at least that I can find.

If, as stated in Romans, God appoints our leaders, is God using Biden and his crew of misfits and fools to drag us down and punish America? Or is God pushing us to the point we must overthrow our government?

In my opinion, our current government is worse than the British we battled in the Revolutionary War. We are taxed with impunity on everything we do or own. We celebrate Pride month and applaud perversion. We sanction the killing of babies because if makes life easier. The government is indoctrinating our kids and failing to educate them. Our "representatives" are part of the gang rape of America; with most of them bought and paid for.

In 2010, 26% of Americans did not know who we fought in the Revolutionay War:
. https://americaswatchtower.com/2010/...ght%20possible.

I bet that percentage has gone up.

Most people have no idea why we fought for Independence.

God knows the truth.

My Pastor sent me this. "I believe the moral decline of our country is in fact the judgement of God on our country because as a whole our country has rejected Him." It is an interesting statement as it suggests moral decline is being used to punish us. Something I had not considered.

Why would the USA be judged for its rebellion today? Individuals involved in the Revolutionary War faced their judgement at the time of their death.

The sins of others are NOT my sins past or present. Some for governments. Governments are run by individuals. These individuals are solely responsible for their action.

Same for me being responsible for the actions of the current administration. I didn't vote for this, and I stand up to it whenever possible.

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Originally Posted by M-Tecs

Why would the USA be judged for its rebellion today? Individuals involved in the Revolutionary War faced their judgement at the time of their death.

The sins of others are NOT my sins past or present. Some for governments. Governments are run by individuals. These individuals are solely responsible for their action.

Same for me being responsible for the actions of the current administration. I didn't vote for this, and I stand up to it whenever possible.

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That's is a easy answer out of the King James Bible because God is going to Judge the Nation's.

All the Nation's

The British Crown set itself up as the Pope of the Anglican church.
King Chuck owns all Britain and all else he can occupy.
That crown conquered the world.

God asked Samuel why on earth Israel wanted a king
then God warned about earthly kings

Americans have been fat and happy for so long
we have been taught what to think, taught not to read
rejected God's first language, math.
Cancelled evangelism.
So some want a powerful ruler to tell them what to do
while they watch a flickering screen.
The sheep forgot they are sheep.

America seems to be judging itself.
God is Love, yet God is Wrath: a God to be feared.
He Blesses who He will bless and His Wrath is awesome.
America asked for His Blessing, received abundantly, then forgot Him.
The Book says we need repentance.
God judges individuals, one at a time.
He has a special Love for the children of Israel, and there Israel stands.
Repent
Renew
Redeem

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Originally Posted by M-Tecs

Why would the USA be judged for its rebellion today? Individuals involved in the Revolutionary War faced their judgement at the time of their death.

The sins of others are NOT my sins past or present. Some for governments. Governments are run by individuals. These individuals are solely responsible for their action.

Same for me being responsible for the actions of the current administration. I didn't vote for this, and I stand up to it whenever possible.

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God has shown He inflicts his judgement on succeeding generations. A cursory reading of Genesis is all the proof needed to understand that sins affects future generations. In Genesis, it is forever….for one mistake.

In fact, it is Genesis that has made me question if God is just and fair…as I define just and fair. But that is another rabbit hole.

Does this question not imply that the British commonwealth was seen favorably in God's eyes?

Who's to say that the breakaway by the Colonies was not Britain's punishment for their actions?

The actions of both countries are questionable at best given what I've read in scripture.

And if you believe in God, who are you to question his actions and motivations?

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Originally Posted by dverna

God has shown He inflicts his judgement on succeeding generations. A cursory reading of Genesis is all the proof needed to understand that sins affects future generations. In Genesis, it is forever….for one mistake.

In fact, it is Genesis that has made me question if God is just and fair…as I define just and fair. But that is another rabbit hole.

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Most of the major organized religions have done some very questionable things. Based on that the followers of most organized religions followers are going to be judge harshly for actions of previous generations and their organizations?

I grow up under one of the very last fire and brimstones priests in the Catholic church. He was followed by a child molester that the church had covered for at least twice before. The child molester was followed by political activist (socialist/communist).

Other than funerals I have not set foot in a church since the mid 80's.

I do live my life and treat others the best I can.

What I find most interest is that apparently a large number of priests have little or no concern about their own actions on judgement day let alone the actions of previous generations????

Some good replies here, much to think about.

I've pondered that maybe the Rev war and the colonies involved were part of God's way to spread the Gospel, as it did in Rome, Asia and other places in the world, as written, at that time.

The Lord works in mysterious ways.

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Originally Posted by Hannibal

Does this question not imply that the British commonwealth was seen favorably in God's eyes?

Who's to say that the breakaway by the Colonies was not Britain's punishment for their actions?

The actions of both countries are questionable at best given what I've read in scripture.

And if you believe in God, who are you to question his actions and motivations?

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I certainly believe in God. None of us can pretend to understand God or His plan. That does not mean we should not think about things and how the Bible, His word, can help us gain understanding and wisdom.

Many American Christians seem to believe we are somehow “special”. I do not believe that is the case. There is only one nation that is God’s chosen people…it is not us.

America has been here for less than 250 years. It seems like a long time, but God’s timeline is eternity.

The greatest country in the world today is being torn apart. That interests me. If it is God’s will, so be it.

Individuals are judged - not governments. None of you will have to answer for my actions - nor I for yours. The rest won’t be known until we each meet our Maker and for any human to truly understand God is not possible, i.e., the pot cannot conceive the potter. It is for this reason that Jesus Christ came into the world, so that each of us can choose whether to follow Him. As for the rest of it, all we can do is pray continuously, and take action when our hearts tell us to do so.

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Originally Posted by dverna

I certainly believe in God. None of us can pretend to understand God or His plan. That does not mean we should not think about things and how the Bible, His word, can help us gain understanding and wisdom.

Many American Christians seem to believe we are somehow “special”. I do not believe that is the case. There is only one nation that is God’s chosen people…it is not us.

America has been here for less than 250 years. It seems like a long time, but God’s timeline is eternity.

The greatest country in the world today is being torn apart. That interests me. If it is God’s will, so be it.

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Have you considered that the title of 'Greatest County in the World today' is nothing more than your personal opinion?

Who declared that to be the case? God?

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Originally Posted by HWooldridge

Individuals are judged - not governments. None of you will have to answer for my actions - nor I for yours. The rest won’t be known until we each meet our Maker and for any human to truly understand God is not possible, i.e., the pot cannot conceive the potter. It is for this reason that Jesus Christ came into the world, so that each of us can choose whether to follow Him. As for the rest of it, all we can do is pray continuously, and take action when our hearts tell us to do so.

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If God is not going to Judge Nations; I guess I will have to put a line though Matt. 25:32 in the old KJB ;)

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Originally Posted by dannyd

If God is not going to Judge Nations; I guess I will have to put a line though Matt. 25:32 in the old KJB ;)

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Do you want to be judged based on the nation or your own actions? I believe it’s pretty clear that each person has to answer for how he/she lived their life.

back then the King was god as far as peasants were concerned,
so by having the revolution (to get away for the state ordered church as well)
we made God our king!!

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Originally Posted by Hannibal

Have you considered that the title of 'Greatest County in the World today' is nothing more than your personal opinion?

Who declared that to be the case? God?

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Hannibal,
Good point. I think we have the greatest country in the world based on my experiences. I am blessed to be able to live anywhere that will take me and have no desire to leave the USA. So yes, it is my personal opinion this is the greatest country in the world.

If you feel differently, that is OK.

I left my country when I was in my 40's and became a US citizen in my 50's. Never regretted my decision. If you think there is a better place for you...go for it. Life is short.

Cahn passionately detailed the prophetic parallels between ancient Israel and the modern-day decline of morality in America.
Johnathan Cahn
“As the people of ancient Israel, in the midst of their blessings, committed a fatal error, so have we,” he continued. “We too, as a nation, have turned from God. We too, as a nation, have removed Him from our lives. Step by step we too have ruled Him out of our culture, out of our government, out of our economy. We too have ruled Him out of the instruction and lives of our children. We too have made God a stranger. And as we have driven God from our national life, we have brought in other gods and idols to replace Him—gods of sensuality, violence, wealth, carnality, sexual promiscuity. And as did Israel, so too we have abandoned the ways of God and the laws of God for the ways of immorality.”

ive-time, best-selling author and renowned Christian leader Jonathan Cahn says America is paralleling ancient Israel before it was destroyed by God. Can we turn it around before it is too late? According to Cahn’s new upcoming movie called “The Harbingers of Things to Come,” we can turn it around, but it’s going to take repentance, prayer, faith and God to do it. Cahn explains, “The harbinger is revealing the Biblical template of national judgment that begins with a strike on the land. It happened in ancient Israel. It’s a wake-up call, calling the nation back. The nation is then given a span of time, years, to come back to God. It’s mercy. The same harbingers or warning signs that happened in the last days of Israel have now happened or have all appeared in America. So, the warning is now for us. Ancient Israel did not turn back. It actually got worse, and that is exactly what happened. In America, the strike came on 9/11, and all the harbingers, nine harbingers, all appeared starting with 9/11. They were warning America of judgment. We have followed the course of ancient Israel. . . . One of the things that ancient Israel did was lifted up its children on the alters of Baal and Moloch, and they killed their children. Israel killed thousands, and we killed millions. Therefore, this puts us in danger of judgment.”

So, how long do we have before God’s judgment starts? Cahn says, “19 years before judgment. When did it happen for America? It was 9.11.2001. Could it be the 19th year would be when great shakings would start coming on the land? What’s the year? It pinpoints the year 2020. 2020 is the year that the shakings come on. The plague comes on. Cities are burning. We are still dealing with Covid. We have been shaken and locked up, and all these things to this day. . . . In Jeramiah, he said a plague would come on the land in Israel. We have a plague, and on the 19th year, the plague came. What’s the name of this plague? They call it Covid and then the number 19. When Jeramiah is talking about the plague and shaking, he is linking it to the sin of killing the nation’s children in ancient Israel. When was the first case of Covid in America? It was called patient zero, and it made headlines across America. It made headlines, and there was a date next to the headline. The date was January 22 (2020). January 22 (1973) is the date the Supreme Court legalized the killing of children.”

Cahn says, “We’ve got to pray that this thing gets undone. God says if you want to kill your children, there is going to be a price to pay.”

America is doing what Israel did in their last days. We are embracing immorality. We are punishing the people of God. We are still killing our children, and we are doing everything they did, and then judgment came. We can’t say we were not warned. The only answer we have is from God.”

So, is the recent Supreme Court decision to limit abortion something that can help save America from Gods judgement? Cahn says, “It’s definitely a step in the right direction, but who knows? This is a gigantic step, but at the same time, it’s not going to end abortion. Abortion is still going to happen in the major places where it happens like New York, which is the abortion capitol of the country. It’s still going to happen in all these places where it is happening, but it’s going to make it harder to kill babies. That means it’s going to save lives. . . . We are seeing pushback on abortion in many places. . . . There is a pushback, but there must be revival if we are going to be saved. The other forces are still going full blast. They are still training the children. So, we have to pray as never before, we have to stand as never before and proclaim the Truth (of Jesus Christ) as never before.

Cahn contends the states that continue abortion will do far worse than states that end abortion.

https://harbingersofthingstocome.com/

The Return of the God's by Jonathan Cahn is well worth reading or get the DVD, this really puts the condition of America in context of our history for the last 100 years.
As Israel turned away from the one true God and turned to the many gods, so has America.
If there is time for the people of America to repent and turn back to the God of the Bible, that time is growing short.




https://www.amazon.com/Return-Gods-J.../dp/1636411428

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Originally Posted by dverna

As we celebrate Independence from Britain, are we mocking God's word and His authority?

Romans 13:
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, 4 for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. 7 Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.

The main reasons for the Revolutionary War were discontent regarding Britain imposing new taxes (which they had the authority to do), and their desire for more control of the colonies (which they also had the authority to do).

It does not appear that Britain was evil and that seems about the only reason the Bible speaks to for not obeying the government.

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Who thought it a good idea to erect in DC a giant phallus sticking up through a vesica piscis, would they mock God?

Supreme Court ruled on abortion
and Lake Mead started filling up.
Co-incidence?
There are no co-incidences.

Who thought it a good idea to erect in DC a giant phallus sticking up through a vesica piscis, would they mock God?

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Originally Posted by dverna

Hannibal,
Good point. I think we have the greatest country in the world based on my experiences. I am blessed to be able to live anywhere that will take me and have no desire to leave the USA. So yes, it is my personal opinion this is the greatest country in the world.

If you feel differently, that is OK.

I left my country when I was in my 40's and became a US citizen in my 50's. Never regretted my decision. If you think there is a better place for you...go for it. Life is short.

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My point was it would seem impossible for any of us to determine if there is any country or group of people who are pleasing God in their behaviors and thinking. Given what is going on here in the US I seriously doubt we would have his blessing now, if we ever did.

When I saw your question I thought of Abraham's dilemma when God revealed his plan for Sodom and Gomorrah while Lot was living there. If judgement for America is delayed, it will be only because of God's mercy.

"MENE, MENE, TEKEL, The handwriting is already on the wall.........and....we know what happens next.

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Originally Posted by Electrod47

"MENE, MENE, TEKEL, The handwriting is already on the wall.........and....we know what happens next.

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A most appropriate song by the great Jonhy Cash.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pAvKBwCTTU

And another...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEyujOSEexM

Yep, its going by the Book.

The KING JAMES version of the ancient writings is a lyrical and poetic interpretation of the ancient tomes. Of course the KING JAMES version would provide the authority to the monarch of the time, supporting the 'born to be ruler' premise.

not just the USA but all nations will see the wrath of our Lord.
the USA has been turning from God for a very long time. its has just been these past
60+ yrs has it been so evil. other nations have shared this evil even longer.

my Savior`s return is very soon.

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Originally Posted by MostlyLeverGuns

The KING JAMES version of the ancient writings is a lyrical and poetic interpretation of the ancient tomes. Of course the KING JAMES version would provide the authority to the monarch of the time, supporting the 'born to be ruler' premise.

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The various study aids, the myriad of available interlinears and concordances, keyed to the King James bible make it a wonderful resource for students of scripture. My favorite edition of the 1611 King James is the 1922 edition Companion Bible with notes and appendixes by E. W. Bullinger.

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Originally Posted by lx2008

not just the USA but all nations will see the wrath of our Lord.
the USA has been turning from God for a very long time. its has just been these past
60+ yrs has it been so evil. other nations have shared this evil even longer.

my Savior`s return is very soon.

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Good morning sir. I couldn't agree with you more.

The subjectification of persons was one of things the Declaration of Independence took a stab at. I was listening to Glenn Beck over the 4th and first versions of the D.E. was aimed at ending slavery in the new world. The Emancipation Declaration wasn't the first attempt. In 1776 it was decided all 13 states had to be unanimous in the list of declarations and 2 states voted against the ending of "stealing people". American Indians were doing it to each other along with African tribes. As more and more people became literate and the bible got translated into their own languages it got harder and harder to see a person as property.

IMO the D.E. was an attempt to step away from the evils of monarchy and their attempts/needs to maintain their power in their own small "g" god ways. Biblically speaking I think it's wrong minded to see our separation as non biblical. But I think we're living in Romans 1 & 2 but to me it's two seperate things.

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Originally Posted by .429&H110

Supreme Court ruled on abortion
and Lake Mead started filling up.
Co-incidence?
There are no co-incidences.

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California gets roughly 60% of Lake Mead's water...
not sure that they are being blessed because for the courts decision, seeing that they crave abortion up to the day of birth and have committed to be a Sanctuary State for the abortion industry.

Book says:
...rains on the just and the unjust...

Arizona is going to run out of water, sooner or later.